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Old Sep 20, 2007, 12:47 PM
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YellowAircraft's Avatar
San Diego, Ca
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Hi,

This kit is $700, including the ejection seat parts and plug-in systems.

Michael,

Cute bird! Nice Falcon, too. I think with some care, you'll be able to get an AUW of 12 pounds. On a gas DF like an O.S. .91 (which only produced 7 pounds static in the F-16), this bird HAULED BOODIE. My gas DF one weighed 14 pounds.

I also got mine yesterday, and I'm brainstorming about ways to save weight without sacrificing strength. Yes, the landing gear are cool. We removed the embellishments on the mains that caused the gear to be weaker or less reliable (like the oleos) and what you're left with are beautiful and VERY strong. You'll really like it when you have the gear and doors all plumbed to your valve and can hit the switch and watch the magic! When does the construction start??
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Old Sep 20, 2007, 12:51 PM
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YellowAircraft's Avatar
San Diego, Ca
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Michael,

Here's a short video of the gear coming down. I can't remember why we didn't shoot the gear going up? Anyway, this is a Yellow F-16 ARF that I turn-keyed for a bloke down under!

Yellow Aircraft F-16 ARF Landing Gear Demo (0 min 9 sec)
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Old Sep 20, 2007, 01:12 PM
EDF Jet Jam 2015, May 28-31st
Robert Belluomini's Avatar
United States, KY, Crestview Hills
Joined Dec 2000
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m898,
Can you weigh the airframe and retracts and post the weight?
Thanks,
Bob
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Old Sep 20, 2007, 02:19 PM
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monkamarm2000's Avatar
NorCal Silicon Valley
Joined Aug 2002
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yeah be nice to see a break down. And I would still consider 110 ESC, the Kontronik is big and heavy, and also cant go behind the fan to keep things light and uncluttered. Trust me its a hulk of a ESC, were runnign it in the 1/8th F-16 and its still big! And Stu's fan would be perfect if you can get one, if not, while im not a fan of the size to power ratio the DS-75 is a good fit for it. but dont do it up like a 120 as copm-arf has done, do it up light. swap 1527 for a 1521, maybe raise the kv a tad and drop to 10 or 11s range. the 2 choices for 75 in nue would be 780 kv and 1050kv, noth sure which one would be a better fit for it. 120 is just gonna be to big, it'll go ok but for what you put in there might not be a lot coming out the back. as example my f-16 is less than 3 inches smaller than that one and I run 90mm in it and its a rocket.

Barry

Barry
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Old Sep 20, 2007, 03:37 PM
EDF Jet Jam 2015, May 28-31st
Robert Belluomini's Avatar
United States, KY, Crestview Hills
Joined Dec 2000
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If you mean wing span, it's just two inches which tells me Tam has stretched the wing on his F-16 quite a bit to lower the wing loading! You are not comparing evenly.

Yellow F-16 WS 44", Length 67"
Tam small F-16 WS 42", Length 54"
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Old Sep 20, 2007, 05:06 PM
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k_sonn's Avatar
Bellevue, WA
Joined Feb 2004
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There's nothing wrong with using a 120mm fanin this palne. I used a TF4000 nd Neu 1912 1Y motor in the YA F-16 I built and it weighed 13.5 pounds, had plenty of horizontal and vertical power, and flew and landed easily with no flaps. I don't know why all of a sudden 120mm fans are considered not the right fan for this airframe when it was originally designed for a 5.25 inch fan that produced less power than the TF4000. Just take a look at the video of my F-16 if your not convinced.

By the way M898, nice plane.

Kirk
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Old Sep 20, 2007, 09:35 PM
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Perth, Western Australia
Joined Jun 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Belluomini
m898,
Can you weigh the airframe and retracts and post the weight?
Thanks,
Bob
ok, basically i weighed all the parts. Here are the photos of them on the scale.

In summary
1. Airframe (everything ie cockpit, wings, spars etc) = 2.390 kg
2. Retracts (incl wheels & rims) = 0.641 kg
3. Hardware (bolts, rods etc) = 0.356 kg

hope the photos are useful - measurements are in grams
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Old Sep 20, 2007, 09:51 PM
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Perth, Western Australia
Joined Jun 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monkamarm2000
yeah be nice to see a break down. And I would still consider 110 ESC, the Kontronik is big and heavy, and also cant go behind the fan to keep things light and uncluttered. Trust me its a hulk of a ESC, were runnign it in the 1/8th F-16 and its still big! And Stu's fan would be perfect if you can get one, if not, while im not a fan of the size to power ratio the DS-75 is a good fit for it. but dont do it up like a 120 as copm-arf has done, do it up light. swap 1527 for a 1521, maybe raise the kv a tad and drop to 10 or 11s range. the 2 choices for 75 in nue would be 780 kv and 1050kv, noth sure which one would be a better fit for it. 120 is just gonna be to big, it'll go ok but for what you put in there might not be a lot coming out the back. as example my f-16 is less than 3 inches smaller than that one and I run 90mm in it and its a rocket.

Barry

Barry
thanks Barry. I will have to think carefully what to do here but it will be fun trying to work it out. I haven't seen the Kontronik in real life but I agree it must be quite big.

The plane will be built light with the intention to run on a 90mm fan. Worst case is that it will be a little too heavy for a 90mm but it very good for a 120mm.

I am trying to find out more about the DS75 ie where to buy etc. It sure looks promising as being the most efficient.
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Last edited by m898; Sep 20, 2007 at 10:05 PM.
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Old Sep 20, 2007, 09:59 PM
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Perth, Western Australia
Joined Jun 2006
274 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by k_sonn
There's nothing wrong with using a 120mm fanin this palne. I used a TF4000 nd Neu 1912 1Y motor in the YA F-16 I built and it weighed 13.5 pounds, had plenty of horizontal and vertical power, and flew and landed easily with no flaps. I don't know why all of a sudden 120mm fans are considered not the right fan for this airframe when it was originally designed for a 5.25 inch fan that produced less power than the TF4000. Just take a look at the video of my F-16 if your not convinced.

By the way M898, nice plane.

Kirk
Hi Kirk

I found the performance of your plane in the video very good and your setup works well.

I ordered an E-Turbax fan to do some tests on this unit because I haven't found much on it. I've been looking at the TF4000 and DS-94. Being unfamiliar with Neu motors and their lesser range of winds within their motor classes compared to Hacker, i've not settled on a motor and battery setup as yet.
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Old Sep 20, 2007, 11:35 PM
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monkamarm2000's Avatar
NorCal Silicon Valley
Joined Aug 2002
11,779 Posts
your right robert was looking at span. and I still have my yellow inlet duct here and its not that much off from the tam so I remembered in my mind it being closer! lol. Which is good cause then a straighter path could be made for ducting. And I dont think 120 is being knocked at all kirk, were just knocking around newer alternatives that are now available for it. And if your gonna do it you did it the right way with the TF cause the higher pitch is gonna take it way better. Again its a case of the weight factor and whats coming out for whats put in. I really need to add 2 pounds to my F-16 and see what the effects are. But with 90mm the Tam doesnt crawl to speed, it slams to 160 165 then the wings really start to bow, so I know there is a lot of performance that can be sucked up by slightly larger plane and weight.

Barry
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Old Sep 21, 2007, 05:18 AM
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YellowAircraft's Avatar
San Diego, Ca
Joined Feb 2005
398 Posts
Hi,

I think part of the allure for some is to fly a scale jet. To some, speed isn't everything. Don't get me wrong--I LOVE a fast plane, but I think if it's the main goal, a sleeker sport-type plane would do it for me.

Kirk,

You've got a good point. I've gotten a few emails and PMs taking me on the long-way journey through electrics. Where they end up is that I need to gut the kit and redo everything for weight and use a 90mm setup. Since I don't know much about this stuff, I actually had a few moments of doubt and then I remembered your video! A couple of people got the link to it as a reply to their warnings. Thanks for posting it, because it's what got me to give this EDF Falcon a try!
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Old Sep 21, 2007, 06:52 AM
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monkamarm2000's Avatar
NorCal Silicon Valley
Joined Aug 2002
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so 3.384kg (7.4 pounds) , add 1540grams (3 pounds) to that for 90mm 10s setup, or 2450 grams (5.4 pounds) for 120mm 12s setup, then factor servo's for a rough AUW. but thats by the book, if you can shave anywhere along the way go for it. for example without rattle trap you dont need all the trays and such, you can just velcro electronics on the sides of the fuse. I think if your crafty you could pull of 10.5 pounds with 90mm, with a good setup 8 to 8 1/2 pounds thrust could be had installed. At 120mm your looking more at 13 pounds with 9-10 pounds installed if everything goes very well.
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Old Sep 21, 2007, 09:43 AM
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Perth, Western Australia
Joined Jun 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monkamarm2000
so 3.384kg (7.4 pounds) , add 1540grams (3 pounds) to that for 90mm 10s setup, or 2450 grams (5.4 pounds) for 120mm 12s setup, then factor servo's for a rough AUW. but thats by the book, if you can shave anywhere along the way go for it. for example without rattle trap you dont need all the trays and such, you can just velcro electronics on the sides of the fuse. I think if your crafty you could pull of 10.5 pounds with 90mm, with a good setup 8 to 8 1/2 pounds thrust could be had installed. At 120mm your looking more at 13 pounds with 9-10 pounds installed if everything goes very well.
Exactly Barry!. totally agree ! Was inspecting it closely tonight to see where to make mods and weight reduction - like i said early there's lots of places and also without compromising on strength.

I will take my time with this one - no rush.

Barry, would you know where to buy a DS75 fan ? I asked around over here in Aust and it doesnt appear to be a commonly stocked item unlike the DS51 and DS94.
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Old Sep 21, 2007, 10:13 AM
EDF Jet Jam 2015, May 28-31st
Robert Belluomini's Avatar
United States, KY, Crestview Hills
Joined Dec 2000
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Check with COMP ARF I think they will be the first to get them.
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Old Sep 21, 2007, 10:28 AM
Registered User
Perth, Western Australia
Joined Jun 2006
274 Posts
Thanks Robert
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