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Old Jul 22, 2009, 06:11 PM
electric power,what else!
eJets's Avatar
Joined Dec 2005
268 Posts
Landing Configuration

Hi,

Here a Pic from Landing Configuration (8mm Aileron Drop) and the Jet-1A Struts.

cheers eJet
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Old Jul 22, 2009, 08:17 PM
Just here to fly stuff
LeadSled's Avatar
Everywhere
Joined Dec 2005
421 Posts
Good job on the struts Tam. Those are going to work great on my new plane and a lot of other planes.
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Old Jul 23, 2009, 02:04 AM
Neil Jarvis
Neil Guildford's Avatar
Surrey U.K.
Joined Sep 2004
2,016 Posts
My elevator is nearly level and I'm at 140mm now. I'm noticing that its more elevator sensitive but with 60% expo its still very comfortable. I don't use dual rates so this could also be due to the max end points I'm using to get take off. I think I'm at about 30mm elevator travel and I use all of it on rotation.
Neil
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Old Jul 23, 2009, 07:32 AM
electric power,what else!
eJets's Avatar
Joined Dec 2005
268 Posts
Elevator Mix for Aileron Drop

...after another flight I came up with a nice elevator mix for the aileron drop:

CG: 150mm from leading Edge
Elevator: +16mm / -14mm, 50% Expo
Aileron: +13mm / -15mm, 50% Expo
Rudder: +/-24mm, 30% Expo
Take-off: 4mm Aileron Drop (2% Elevator up), ca. 20 Speedbrakes
Landing: 8mm Aileron Drop (4% Elevator up), ca. 80 Speedbrakes

...but still working on a CG that givs zero trim on the elevator...

cheers eJets
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Old Jul 23, 2009, 08:16 AM
Watt me worry?
Madmax1965's Avatar
Florida
Joined Mar 2006
3,861 Posts
Anyone tried spoilerons(on any plane). I am thinking about using spoilerons but wanted some input. I have been told spoilerons work better on jets than flaperons as you can land in an high alpha control. Also less chance of stalling as the spoilerron setup will not cause pitch change(as does flaperons)but rather push the plane down in a controlled landing. In flaperons if you have the flap setting at say 40 degrees and the plane noses up an additional 40 degrees then you now have the flaps @ 80 degrees and the plane will probably stall. With spoilerons your plane would stay at 40 degrees and maybe have less than 5 degrees pitch of the nose. Seems to me jets would be the best setup for using spoilerons and land in a high alfa landing. Actually the spoileron acts more as a speedbrake. This is how I understand spoilerons.
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Last edited by Madmax1965; Jul 23, 2009 at 01:45 PM.
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Old Jul 23, 2009, 08:41 AM
electric power,what else!
eJets's Avatar
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Old Jul 23, 2009, 09:08 AM
GRX
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Joined Jun 2008
601 Posts
I've pretty well stopped using the flaps for takeoff/landing. I use the speedbrake to help slow it down on final but other than that I've found I dont really need them. I primarily fly from a 250' runway and takeoffs arent an issue and I can get the speed down enough just by raising the nose and working the throttle. I think alot of people underestimate just how slow this airframe can go without stalling. I would speculate that you'd probably pancake one before you'd tip stall and drop a wing.
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Old Jul 23, 2009, 09:31 AM
Pursuit of Happiness
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Brentwood, California
Joined Jul 2007
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I agree GRX..
I just started flying mine off a 450 paved runway... and when I nail it I'm using half the runway...

Here's what I do land... when the timer goes off I take it down wind at half throttle at a safe altitude... turn around into the wind...all the while at half throttle.. When it gets back to me drop the gear.. I fly to about the center line of the runway and turn back around heading down wind..(if there's no wind drop the speed brake... if it's blowing 10 mph don't use it) go out pretty deep and start to make your turn back to the runway...and start to come off the throttle... I'd guess I'm close to 1/4 coming out of the turn... this really sets up the plane and get it slow... once I know I have the runway made and I'm not too slow.. I come off the power.. Keep the nose up and land

I know it's pretty basic...but this low power half lap really gets it slowed down and locked in.. Without it, it just glides forever.

Its working for me... I just hit 14 flights the other day and the MPI wheels are worn off.. I ordered a new set from Tam. For guys running the MPI wheels we have to keep the brakes lubed every few flights... mine locked up and finished off the wheels (there square now..lol)

Later
Ron
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Old Jul 23, 2009, 11:12 AM
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San Jose, CA
Joined Jun 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron101
I agree GRX..
I just started flying mine off a 450 paved runway... and when I nail it I'm using half the runway...

Here's what I do land... when the timer goes off I take it down wind at half throttle at a safe altitude... turn around into the wind...all the while at half throttle.. When it gets back to me drop the gear.. I fly to about the center line of the runway and turn back around heading down wind..(if there's no wind drop the speed brake... if it's blowing 10 mph don't use it) go out pretty deep and start to make your turn back to the runway...and start to come off the throttle... I'd guess I'm close to 1/4 coming out of the turn... this really sets up the plane and get it slow... once I know I have the runway made and I'm not too slow.. I come off the power.. Keep the nose up and land

I know it's pretty basic...but this low power half lap really gets it slowed down and locked in.. Without it, it just glides forever.

Its working for me... I just hit 14 flights the other day and the MPI wheels are worn off.. I ordered a new set from Tam. For guys running the MPI wheels we have to keep the brakes lubed every few flights... mine locked up and finished off the wheels (there square now..lol)

Later
Ron

Ron,
Use some kind of thick grease or silicone lube. That stay on the brake for many flights.
When get the trailing struts. Go for 2.5" wheels. That work really nice.
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Old Jul 23, 2009, 11:56 AM
Pursuit of Happiness
Ron101's Avatar
Brentwood, California
Joined Jul 2007
7,197 Posts
Quote:
Ron,
Use some kind of thick grease or silicone lube. That stay on the brake for many flights.
When get the trailing struts. Go for 2.5" wheels. That work really
nice.


When I get back you'll hook me up... looking forward to the struts and bigger wheels... I used white grease but went 14 flights without greasing them

I'd say every 10 flights they need it

later
Ron
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Old Jul 23, 2009, 12:19 PM
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San Jose, CA
Joined Jun 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron101
nice.


When I get back you'll hook me up... looking forward to the struts and bigger wheels... I used white grease but went 14 flights without greasing them

I'd say every 10 flights they need it

later
Ron
My had 50 flights plus using thick silicone lube before need to service.
Also remember to grease the brass bushing as well.
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Old Jul 23, 2009, 12:24 PM
Los Gatos Airport
California
Joined Aug 2008
115 Posts
What are you greasing? Just the O ring or the disk/O ring surface?
I guess because I am using less than 90 psi I have not had problems.
I am running separate tanks.
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Old Jul 23, 2009, 12:29 PM
Pursuit of Happiness
Ron101's Avatar
Brentwood, California
Joined Jul 2007
7,197 Posts
I greased that O-ring and disc surface, then put it together....
I'll have to find some thick grease... mines a bit thin

ok off to ventura( but I'll still have the lap top)

later!!
Ron
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Old Jul 23, 2009, 12:37 PM
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Joined May 2009
355 Posts
Tam, can you use good old Vasoline? I have tons of that Lube, (Don't ask). Otherwise, i'm going to use Mobil 28 synthetic grease as I have that here at work.
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Old Jul 23, 2009, 11:16 PM
Registered User
Joined Sep 2005
53 Posts
I am at 150mm and I have 0 trim on my Spark, inverted is just a light push on the stick. Airbrake is close to 90 deg.

I have a few flights now and I don't think it's necessary for any fancy mixing. I like the rates and expo from the manual.

For landings, just fly it in like has been posted, drop gear, check on upwind, get in the pattern, lower the airbrake, lower the throttle as needed depending on wind and sink rate, line up, hold some power until you're over the runway, keep the nose slightly up, cut power and flare at the last second to a smooth (but abrupt cause its heavy) landing.

I am going to try Tam's new struts for grass but in the mean time I have another experiment. I am using some offset Robart struts (651L/R) with some 2.25" Ramtec wheels. The Ramtec wheels have an aluminum hub which I drilled out and put a brass bushing in. They are VERY lite and the tire provides lots of spring action. I glued the tire to the hub for extra safety.

I have not needed my brakes at all and the one time I did use them they caused the strut pin to shear off anyway... so I am getting rid of them and saving a lot of weight. I think overall I will drop 6 to 8oz from where it is now.

I have an idea and if it works out the offset strut will give a nice way to make gear doors too. I'll post pics when done.

On the 8th cycle of my TP 20C/40C packs they really came to life and I was getting some very fast fly by's even with my wheels not tucked all the way up. I have not run the 30c XPS packs yet but they are holding about 200 watts more on the bench break-in runs.

I plan to stick with 10s, get the airframe as clean as I can and then it should be fast enough and also very light for aerobatics.

Flew at a full-scale airshow yesterday. 3900ft ASL, density was way high like around 7000ft due to the heat (95f) and dryness. Lipo's were nice and warm so the plane was fast but lacking thrust for aerobatics. Still fun though cause the fly by's were finally looking fast.

I'm using about 3000 mah in 5 mins with 4 or 5 ful-throttle passes so I plan to start flying 6 mins.

I like the Spark, its a great flying little Jet. I makes me feel like trying a bigger turbine
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