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Old Mar 09, 2009, 03:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Ron van Sommeren
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Ron
Thanks for the tip. I will use that from now on. I was not aware of that method.
Scott.
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Old Mar 09, 2009, 05:21 PM
Dave North
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Anybody interested in pursuing this particular motor should be advised that the new Turnigy 3000Kv variant (a) does not have gluey crud all over the wiring and is therefore easy to unwind and (b) has an improved stator.

All good fun!


Dave (subscribed...)
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Old Jun 24, 2009, 11:58 PM
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Good to hear the news about the TGY 14mag. I have 2 more 14mag hxt's (3000kV) to clean from my box to make room for some TGY's. I also happen to have a new superslo 28 in the works that should take flight this weekend. I also have 2 more 16mag hxt's I could rewind.

So what you guys think would be a solid performing rewind for the superslo28? I'm open to whatever... 12/16pole, y/delta (prefer dlrk for 3D ). I prefer 26awg, 22awg, or stock hexkit wire (25.5awg), since that's all I have on me. I also would like to use 2s, since i have a lot of "orphaned" small 2s packs (500mAh 20C).

Thanks,
Kev

[edit: Dave, that's another real benefit to DLRK that you haven't been mentioning: superior prop braking on downlines due to less cogging. It really does make a difference. It's obvious: I've noticed all my aerobatic DRLK powered planes hold more RPM and make a distinct "wooosh" sound on an "idle downline" compared to CD's.]
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Old Jun 25, 2009, 07:21 AM
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Cogging is purely a magnetic effect (magnetic reluctance), it does not depend on winding diagrams, number of winds or star/delta hook-up. It will even be the same without windings. It must be something else in dLRK that gives you superior propbraking Kevin, but I guess you're not complaining

edit: You are 100% right about the cogging, you were talking dLRK versus CD-rom, not dLRK versus LRK as I thought initially.

Note that a motor will much harder to crank over when the motor terminals are shorted against each other. This is because the motor is now acting as a shorted generator. This is not cogging. Try shorting them with three 0.1, three 1.0 and three 10Ohm resistors and notice the difference.

Vriendelijke groeten Ron
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Old Jun 25, 2009, 09:04 AM
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I've always wondered why nobody has come up with an esc that makes use of regenerative braking. Just think of how many watt hours are wasted by descending rc planes around the world every day. j/k Seriously though, it could increase flight times by a significant amount, especially for cdrom setups with larger props.

BTW, now that I'm all built up for the year (airframe-wise), I'll have more time to rewind motors and run bench tests. I was curious how Manual's hexkit spreadsheet is looking lately? I downloaded it last night from an old link, so I'm not sure if I have the most recent version. FWIW, I already have the motors and props needed to fill several holes in the data I downloaded.

Kev

[edit: Ron, sorry about my somewhat confusing post. I interchanged references from 12/16pole to dlrk/cd; technically correct (i think, hehe), but more confusing than need be.]
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Old Jun 25, 2009, 11:35 AM
Dave North
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Truglodite
I've always wondered why nobody has come up with an esc that makes use of regenerative braking.
Castle Phoenix actually do. It's mostly as a joke, though: Patrick said the pulses generated during braking are so strong that most of it is wasted because the battery can't accept charge fast enough.

As to what wind is best, that has become a real problem lately without looking at the specific motor. If you're using the new Turnigy blanks, for 2S 16- mag I get:

Tgy 10T 24swg ABC Wye Kv = 1721 Io = 0.68 Rm = .112
GWS 8040 DD Rhino 610 2S
9239 rpm @ 7.45v/8.64a 433 grams 15.3 oz/thrust 77.4% Efficient
Drive Calc: 475 grams 16.7 oz/thrust 80.5% Efficient

On the older stators, they come in two different stator shapes and at least two different mag sets. So there, I suppose I'd just use the same 10 turns and hope for the best, though if the result is weak, go to 9. Also, in either configuration, a 16-turn delta is usually about the same.

For the dLRK Turnigy, the 17-turn 24awg Delta seems to be the ticket on average:

Tgy 2730 17T 25g dLRK Delta
Kv 1875 (14591/7.84v) Io = 0.61 Rm = 0.093
GWS 8040 HD Hex 620 2S
9486 rpm @ 6.86v/9.67a 457 grams 16.1 oz/thrust 81.2% Efficient
Drive Calc: 501 grams 17.7 oz/thrust 84.3% Efficient

Not an easy wind though, and it doesn't drop a lot if you punt to 26awg. The 10-turn Wye didn't work anywhere near as well for some reason, but YMMV.

On the older ones, the same wind works well enough but there the 10/Y did work okay on most.


Dave
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Old Jul 02, 2009, 10:22 PM
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Originally Posted by timocharis
There's no pretty way to get the third layer on -- it's just brute force. When I'm going to do a third layer 25awg, I do 7-6-2 (in this case). If you're lucky, the third layer will allow you to sneak the wire back to the rear at the end of the last turn. If not, just trap a couple of the wires with transition wires from later winds and you'll have something "held" at the middle.

Now here's a really useful trick: if you're having trouble with the third layer, wind the first two layers of all the teeth first. In this case, say, 7-6. Then go back and stick the other two turns on "wherever you can." They'll fit somewhere.

Just make sure you get the turn direction right! Of course, it doesn't matter which of the two teeth is wound first. You can even criss-cross if it suits you. Ain't dLRK wonderful?

If this is "clear as mud" I'll try to say it some other way that makes more sense...


Dave
Would this "wherever you can" trick also be the way to go for 14T? Looking at my 13T, if I used this method it seems like the leads wouldn't be very well secured after the final turn (compared to 13T anyways).

Kev

[edit: Nevermind, I got myself in a bind and started a 13T 24awg, but after measuring I realized the 24 I bought today was actually swg (0.56mm). So after doing the first phase I figured it was turning in to a 5-5 wind with an option for a possible 1 or 2 turns on the 3rd layer. After looking at Manuel's spreadsheet I decided to go forth with making this one a 10t-24swg, since that looks like a good wind for 2s.

BTW, I also tried Manuel's 22awg magnet spacing trick and it worked great this time. I had to bend the wires so they hit the magnets closer to the stator; if that makes any sense. I haven't taken measurements, but maybe 21 or 20 awg would make work without having to bend?]
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Old Jul 03, 2009, 10:23 AM
Dave North
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10T 24swg should be a great 2S wind. Never tried it myself, but it has all the right ingredients.


Dave
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Old Jul 03, 2009, 12:52 PM
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There are 3 entries in Manual's spreadsheet for 10T-24swg-dlrk-Y, and all 3 have your name on them? With E = 77.4,79.5,78, the highest efficiency (with complete accompanying data) on Manual's spreadsheet, it should be a half decent replacement for my 15T-26awg-ABC-delta that burns 2s on my slo26, hehe,

Anyhow, last night I barely got through phase 2, but it looks like I might get lucky on this one. I'm rusty, so I had to redo a phase after I put 8T backwards on the last pole of phase 2, lol. Wish me luck on phase 3, I'm going to need it!

Cheers,
Kev

[edit: I'm expecting a few of my buddies to ask me to rewind their 16mag motors like this. How do you think 10T-24swg-ABC-Y will compare as far as efficiency? There's an incomplete entry in the spreadsheet that claims slightly lower kV with ABC, which is what I'd expect, right?]
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Old Jul 03, 2009, 05:03 PM
Dave North
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Truglodite
There are 3 entries in Manual's spreadsheet for 10T-24swg-dlrk-Y, and all 3 have your name on them?
Oh oops! I just took a look and yeah, I did use some of my small supply of SWG on them ... my bad.

Looks like they're pretty good all right!


Dave
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Old Jul 03, 2009, 07:44 PM
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I'm crossing my fingers now. The wind is done and motor assembled. It's not as pretty as yours Dave (mine has more cheaters, poles with 1/2turns on the 3rd layer), but it did pass the short and dremel test with flying colors (dremel VAC = 1.051/1.065/1.058). Now I just need to hook it up to my slo26 and see what numbers eagle tree spits out.

Cheers,
Kev
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Old Jul 03, 2009, 08:03 PM
Dave North
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It'll be fine!


Dave
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Old Jul 03, 2009, 11:46 PM
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More than just fine!

OK, here we go:

Hex 2730 10T 24swg dLRK Y
Kv 1666 (13392/8.04V) Io = 0.533 Rm = 0.182
GWS 8040 HD Tp 910 2S
8323 rpm @ 6.79V/7.22a 13.7oz/thrust 74.2% Efficient
Drive Calc: 382 grams 13.6 oz/thrust 77% Efficient

I'm sure this wind has a lot more stink to it. The 14magnet rotor I built from the kit came out extremely out of balance; the motor vibrates badly. I'm guessing it's because I didn't cut the 22awg magnet spacers evenly. I'm sure I could get at least a few more % if I swap out the rotor with a new (balanced) one from my stock 3000kV. Anyhow, besides the awful vibration, I'm happy with the motor. Actually, I'm elated about the stator.

Cheers,
Kev

[edit: I updated Io, Kv, and Rm with the correct values. At first they were incorrectly calculated with RPM errors caused by using a "12 pole" setting in Eagle Tree instead of the correct 14 pole.]
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Old Jul 04, 2009, 12:52 AM
Dave North
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Truglodite
Actually, I'm elated about the stator.
As well you should be! That's a fine job, and the result is strong for a poor balance (which is no doubt stressing the bearings, too). I'm sure you'd pick up a few more % with clean mechanicals.

Excellent!


Dave
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Old Jul 04, 2009, 08:30 AM
homo ludens modellisticus
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Kevin, the copperwire spacers between the magnets will lead to higher losses and lower efficiciency, due to eddy currents induced in them. Use non-conductive material e.g. this method for glueing in magnets:.
http://www.torcman.de/index_e.htm
-> downloads
-> Assembly Procedure TM280, 350, 430
-> chapter 3

Prettig weekend Ron
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