stock 280 vertical possible?

rcnutt · Nov 21, 2002, 06:53 AM

I've get a couple of stock 280 motors and was wondering what to build to be able to go vertical? Is a geared setup better? I think I read somewhere on here about a PopFly with a 280 on it going vertical. Could I use the Tiny-x and a 280? Anyone with any experience along these lines? I was thinking a real light foam wing and a dd drive 280 and the back. I have gathered from these threads that I will need a light battery pack like a 350 Nimh or less to do this, right? What size prop works with a 280 (DD)? In other words what is the wildest thing I can make for a 280 that I can fly in my front yard ( lots of room) Thanx for any help. RCNutt

Tres Wright · Nov 21, 2002, 09:56 AM

Your best bet is to try different combos out in Motocalc. It's going to be very difficult to make something go vertical with a 280 though. The motor/prop/battery combo's thrust must exceed the weight of the plane by a fair margin to get true vertical performance. The problem is to get more thrust you inevitably have to add more weight in the form of a gearbox and bigger cells, but the added weight means you need even more thrust, and thus the vicious cycle is born! The easiest and quickest answer to this conundrum is to go brushless. The motors are much more efficient and can handle the higher amp loads required for crazy performance.

While some people may have claimed to get vertical off a 280, you have to take such claims with a grain of salt. Some people consider a 45 degree climbout as vertical, others think that if they plunge into a dive and pull up into 15' worth of vertical then they have "vertical". Personally I consider real honest-to-goodness vertical performance as ROGing, pointing the nose up and climbing for the clouds

cathode · Nov 21, 2002, 10:44 AM

tres, have you had any experience with the hacker brushless version of the 280?

Tres Wright · Nov 21, 2002, 12:49 PM

If you mean the "S" series, I have evaluated them and crunched numbers in Motocalc. I've seen enough to warrant serious consideration on a future purchase. The numbers look good and it's a relatively light motor for a geared brushless.

rcav8r2 · Nov 21, 2002, 12:53 PM

280 geared 4:1 10x4.7 prop on an IFO w/ 10 cells will go vertical at 1/2 throttle.

AIR MOVER · Nov 21, 2002, 02:27 PM

yes i go vertical on a 5:1 ratio with a 11in prop on 8 300nmh the climb rate is stable at about 15mph. you need good rudder control to keep the tracking smooth 3D style planes tend to work best... alerons are lil more drag in a climb then with rudder enduced corrections ... good luck

Vonbaron · Nov 21, 2002, 03:52 PM

The only way a standard 280 direct drive would go vertical is straight down.

Dave Hederich · Nov 22, 2002, 09:50 AM

I think the 280 motor is under-rated because most people have never flown one that has been optimized. It requires the right combination of gearing, prop size and battery pack voltage to produce optimum performance with a 280. As rcav8r2 alludes to, Dan Kreigh first recommended a 4:1 geared 280 with 10x4.7 prop and 10-cell (12V) pack for the IFO. This combination will make an IFO go vertical. Now he recommends a 3-cell Li-poly pack, which is less than half the weight of 10 AAA NiMH cells, yet produces about the same voltage. The 280 is well-matched with Li-polys because of its relatively low current draw.

Using lightweight Li-polys, many geared 280 aircraft combinations could be capable of going vertical. A 280 motor, gearbox and prop together with a 3-cell Kokam 1020mAh Li-poly pack have a combined weight of ~4.5 oz. With the right gearing and prop, this combination will produce ~10 oz. thrust. If you can keep the rest of the aircraft weight <5.5 oz., you will have >1:1 thrust to weight. To get ~10 oz. thrust, you do need to trade prop pitch speed for thrust by going to a larger diameter, lower pitch prop. Therefore, you need to have an aircraft with a relatively low stall speed, similar to the IFO.

So while the "lowly" 280 will never be considered a high-performance motor, it can deliver pretty hot vertical performance when optimized and integrated with the right aircraft.

Nov 21, 2002, 06:53 AM	#1
rcnutt Registered User Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Centerville, In. USA Posts: 1,480	stock 280 vertical possible? I've get a couple of stock 280 motors and was wondering what to build to be able to go vertical? Is a geared setup better? I think I read somewhere on here about a PopFly with a 280 on it going vertical. Could I use the Tiny-x and a 280? Anyone with any experience along these lines? I was thinking a real light foam wing and a dd drive 280 and the back. I have gathered from these threads that I will need a light battery pack like a 350 Nimh or less to do this, right? What size prop works with a 280 (DD)? In other words what is the wildest thing I can make for a 280 that I can fly in my front yard ( lots of room) Thanx for any help. RCNutt

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Nov 21, 2002, 09:56 AM	#2
Tres Wright Live to ride... and fly! Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Forney, TX Posts: 13,063	Your best bet is to try different combos out in Motocalc. It's going to be very difficult to make something go vertical with a 280 though. The motor/prop/battery combo's thrust must exceed the weight of the plane by a fair margin to get true vertical performance. The problem is to get more thrust you inevitably have to add more weight in the form of a gearbox and bigger cells, but the added weight means you need even more thrust, and thus the vicious cycle is born! The easiest and quickest answer to this conundrum is to go brushless. The motors are much more efficient and can handle the higher amp loads required for crazy performance. While some people may have claimed to get vertical off a 280, you have to take such claims with a grain of salt. Some people consider a 45 degree climbout as vertical, others think that if they plunge into a dive and pull up into 15' worth of vertical then they have "vertical". Personally I consider real honest-to-goodness vertical performance as ROGing, pointing the nose up and climbing for the clouds

Nov 21, 2002, 10:44 AM	#3
cathode End User Join Date: May 2002 Location: Indianapolis Posts: 2,760	tres, have you had any experience with the hacker brushless version of the 280?

Nov 21, 2002, 12:49 PM	#4
Tres Wright Live to ride... and fly! Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Forney, TX Posts: 13,063	If you mean the "S" series, I have evaluated them and crunched numbers in Motocalc. I've seen enough to warrant serious consideration on a future purchase. The numbers look good and it's a relatively light motor for a geared brushless.

Nov 21, 2002, 12:53 PM	#5
rcav8r2 Registered User Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Hopewell PA Posts: 2,470	280 geared 4:1 10x4.7 prop on an IFO w/ 10 cells will go vertical at 1/2 throttle.

Nov 21, 2002, 02:27 PM	#6
AIR MOVER Master of the Wind Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: TEXAS Posts: 3,043	yes i go vertical on a 5:1 ratio with a 11in prop on 8 300nmh the climb rate is stable at about 15mph. you need good rudder control to keep the tracking smooth 3D style planes tend to work best... alerons are lil more drag in a climb then with rudder enduced corrections ... good luck

Nov 21, 2002, 03:52 PM	#7
Vonbaron Plane hugging cat Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Mackay Queensland Australia Posts: 1,355	The only way a standard 280 direct drive would go vertical is straight down.

Nov 22, 2002, 09:50 AM	#8
Dave Hederich Registered User Join Date: Feb 2000 Location: Walled Lake, MI, USA Posts: 11,182	I think the 280 motor is under-rated because most people have never flown one that has been optimized. It requires the right combination of gearing, prop size and battery pack voltage to produce optimum performance with a 280. As rcav8r2 alludes to, Dan Kreigh first recommended a 4:1 geared 280 with 10x4.7 prop and 10-cell (12V) pack for the IFO. This combination will make an IFO go vertical. Now he recommends a 3-cell Li-poly pack, which is less than half the weight of 10 AAA NiMH cells, yet produces about the same voltage. The 280 is well-matched with Li-polys because of its relatively low current draw. Using lightweight Li-polys, many geared 280 aircraft combinations could be capable of going vertical. A 280 motor, gearbox and prop together with a 3-cell Kokam 1020mAh Li-poly pack have a combined weight of ~4.5 oz. With the right gearing and prop, this combination will produce ~10 oz. thrust. If you can keep the rest of the aircraft weight <5.5 oz., you will have >1:1 thrust to weight. To get ~10 oz. thrust, you do need to trade prop pitch speed for thrust by going to a larger diameter, lower pitch prop. Therefore, you need to have an aircraft with a relatively low stall speed, similar to the IFO. So while the "lowly" 280 will never be considered a high-performance motor, it can deliver pretty hot vertical performance when optimized and integrated with the right aircraft.