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Old Aug 17, 2007, 05:00 PM
Been There! Done That!
boomerace's Avatar
Eugene, Oregon, United States
Joined Sep 2001
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On Board 5 in 1 Flight Video from the Gymallo

Wind was 10MPH according to the airport but much higher gusts. Readied the plane and camera, set it on the ground and hit throttle and it immediately blew over. Set it back up and hit throttle before it could blow over again. Wind aloft was really bad. Was climbing to do the tumble and gust caught it and it did a unplanned loop as you can see. Got it to altitude and did my tumble. Check out the noise the sail made during the tumble. BTW it's OK if you had to get out the Barf Bag! Made it down and didn't try to spot land as was fighting the wind all the time. Walked up to retrieve plane and it again blew over! I think the Gymallo could hoist a 8oz camera but changed my mind about trying it but love the little jewel more every time I fly it! Video as usual on the website www.boomerseflight.com listed as Gymallo On Board Video. Comments welcome..............
boomer
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Old Aug 17, 2007, 11:31 PM
Been There! Done That!
boomerace's Avatar
Eugene, Oregon, United States
Joined Sep 2001
19,187 Posts
Has anyone else stuck a camera on one of these? The plane is so stable I am considering using it for a camera platform as you can almost slow it to a crawl!
boomer
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Old Aug 18, 2007, 08:04 AM
This is fun!
BosTom's Avatar
Winchester, MA
Joined Jan 2007
1,350 Posts
It looks like a great plane for indoors and outdoors on very calm planes. That would be to limiting for me.

I like to take high altitude pictures and videos where winds are well above 25mph. I use a brushless WingDragon 4. My latest altitude was 2600 ft above ground (I have an altimeter built in)

Other friends of mine that do aerial video use a brushless Wingo, the TwinStar II and a brushless EasyStar with ailerons.

You can check out my videos at http://www.putfile.com/bostom123

It all depends what type of video clip you want to produce.

Tom
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Old Aug 18, 2007, 12:31 PM
Been There! Done That!
boomerace's Avatar
Eugene, Oregon, United States
Joined Sep 2001
19,187 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by BosTom
It looks like a great plane for indoors and outdoors on very calm planes. That would be to limiting for me.

I like to take high altitude pictures and videos where winds are well above 25mph. I use a brushless WingDragon 4. My latest altitude was 2600 ft above ground (I have an altimeter built in)

Other friends of mine that do aerial video use a brushless Wingo, the TwinStar II and a brushless EasyStar with ailerons.

You can check out my videos at http://www.putfile.com/bostom123

It all depends what type of video clip you want to produce.

Tom
Great Vids Tom! Not what I'm into. If I was serious I would set up my 6 foot or 8 foot Telemasters with a high def video camera. This is just something to play with. My first aerial pics were with a Argus C3 on a Antic way back when we only had 4 channels and I would activate the shutter off the Rudder channel. It was set up so just a twitch of the rudder stick would activate the camera and used a weak spring on the shutter cable so full Rudder could still be used without destroying the camera. All my old pics were destroyed in a flood in Illinois. Just a few family slides survived.
boomer
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Old Aug 18, 2007, 08:34 PM
Curiouser and curiouser
Kokopeli's Avatar
Rochester, NY, USA
Joined Oct 2005
2,062 Posts
"Don't know Walt. It plays at the usual 640 X 480 - 30fps smoothness for me. Anyone else having that problem??? What you might be seeing is the wind vibrations as it was shaking around so bad from the gusts.
boomer"

Boomer
Switched this from the other thread.
Figgered it out - I had downloaded all of your other vids using the low res version you saved. This vid was only in high res. So I tried one of your others in high res (that I knew worked for me in low res) and guess what? Jerky - about 4 frames a sec. My conclusion is that (some day) I will have to get a more graphics friendly computer. This one has almost no graphics capability. Just the on-motherboard chips and no extra memory for it.
Walt
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Old Aug 18, 2007, 08:37 PM
Curiouser and curiouser
Kokopeli's Avatar
Rochester, NY, USA
Joined Oct 2005
2,062 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by boomerace
Great Vids Tom! Not what I'm into. If I was serious I would set up my 6 foot or 8 foot Telemasters with a high def video camera. This is just something to play with. My first aerial pics were with a Argus C3 on a Antic way back when we only had 4 channels and I would activate the shutter off the Rudder channel. It was set up so just a twitch of the rudder stick would activate the camera and used a weak spring on the shutter cable so full Rudder could still be used without destroying the camera. All my old pics were destroyed in a flood in Illinois. Just a few family slides survived.
boomer
Good grief! An Antic must be a VERY large plane. I have a C3 and a C4 - they are not called "bricks" just because of the shape!
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Old Aug 18, 2007, 09:33 PM
Been There! Done That!
boomerace's Avatar
Eugene, Oregon, United States
Joined Sep 2001
19,187 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by wjbite
"Don't know Walt. It plays at the usual 640 X 480 - 30fps smoothness for me. Anyone else having that problem??? What you might be seeing is the wind vibrations as it was shaking around so bad from the gusts.
boomer"

Boomer
Switched this from the other thread.
Figgered it out - I had downloaded all of your other vids using the low res version you saved. This vid was only in high res. So I tried one of your others in high res (that I knew worked for me in low res) and guess what? Jerky - about 4 frames a sec. My conclusion is that (some day) I will have to get a more graphics friendly computer. This one has almost no graphics capability. Just the on-motherboard chips and no extra memory for it.
Walt
That would do it! Thanks for the fead back!
boomer
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Old Aug 18, 2007, 09:37 PM
Been There! Done That!
boomerace's Avatar
Eugene, Oregon, United States
Joined Sep 2001
19,187 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by wjbite
Good grief! An Antic must be a VERY large plane. I have a C3 and a C4 - they are not called "bricks" just because of the shape!
81 inch wing span check
http://www.proctor-enterprises.com/p...monoplanes.htm
I also had a Bipe! My 6 and 8 foot Telemaster is all I can handle now and I have to work at it to get them in my smallish SUV! .
boomer
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Old Aug 19, 2007, 05:57 AM
D'oh.. Dumb Left Thumb
dekan's Avatar
London, UK
Joined Nov 2006
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Happy days, Argus C3/4 not the american camera industry finest moment ! I had C3 as door stop in the 80's. I am not sure what happened to it.....Heavy!
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Old Aug 19, 2007, 12:13 PM
Been There! Done That!
boomerace's Avatar
Eugene, Oregon, United States
Joined Sep 2001
19,187 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by dekan
Happy days, Argus C3/4 not the american camera industry finest moment ! I had C3 as door stop in the 80's. I am not sure what happened to it.....Heavy!
Yes but it was the cheapest thing out there that took a decent pic and the Antic didn't care how much it weighed!
boomer
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Old Sep 01, 2007, 02:04 PM
Forever WTTM Pilot #7
Buzz's Avatar
Daytona Beach, Florida, United States
Joined Aug 2002
11,762 Posts
It's amazing how small these STLabs cameras are.....yet they capture incredible video. Almost all of us use them in the aerial video forum. There are some beautiful videos there from all over the world. But, these little cameras have some inherent oddities. Under the correct conditions, they will often make the video "crawl". It's hard to explain. Here... this is about a 30 second download of my STLabs camera attached to one of my small helicopters.
In this video, I fly to about 110 ft. altitude, but as I go over pine trees, watch for the video to start "crawling"... At first we thought it was vibrations, but it will sometimes do the same thing on a gliding plane. My theory is that it happens most in areas that are not well lit. If you look at this video, it is done late in the evening and the sun has already gone behind the trees until I get over them. I'm wondering if the low light causes the FPS to slow, thus causing the crawling video.

Video Crawl With STLabs 5 in 1 Camera
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Old Sep 01, 2007, 05:17 PM
Dance the skies...
Tom Frank's Avatar
United States, MA, Walpole
Joined Dec 2003
17,686 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buzz
It's amazing how small these STLabs cameras are.....yet they capture incredible video. Almost all of us use them in the aerial video forum. There are some beautiful videos there from all over the world. But, these little cameras have some inherent oddities. Under the correct conditions, they will often make the video "crawl". It's hard to explain. Here... this is about a 30 second download of my STLabs camera attached to one of my small helicopters.
In this video, I fly to about 110 ft. altitude, but as I go over pine trees, watch for the video to start "crawling"... At first we thought it was vibrations, but it will sometimes do the same thing on a gliding plane. My theory is that it happens most in areas that are not well lit. If you look at this video, it is done late in the evening and the sun has already gone behind the trees until I get over them. I'm wondering if the low light causes the FPS to slow, thus causing the crawling video.

Video Crawl With STLabs 5 in 1 Camera
Buzz, I still believe this is vibration induced.... I can see the waviness throughout your entire video when the picture isn't spinning too fast . Also, being a heli, the vibration frequency induced by the spinning rotor is much lower than a plane, so your waves have a longer wavelength and higher amplitude than those that occasionally appear in my plane vids, and therefore are much more noticable. I have some vids where the crawling only occurs at a certain throttle setting when the induced vibration is close to the natural frequency (or multiple thereof) of the plane and/or camera mount. This could also occur in a gliding plane from wind buffeting, a looser camera mount, a flimsy airframe, etc.

If you could isolate the camera from the heli frame, you could put this to the test. Maybe hanging the camera from the heli frame with some fishing line and lift it aloft like it was a load.... anything that can isolate the camera from the rotor vibration. I bet the crawl would go away.
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Old Sep 01, 2007, 06:11 PM
Forever WTTM Pilot #7
Buzz's Avatar
Daytona Beach, Florida, United States
Joined Aug 2002
11,762 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Frank
Buzz, I still believe this is vibration induced.... I can see the waviness throughout your entire video when the picture isn't spinning too fast .

If you could isolate the camera from the heli frame, you could put this to the test. Maybe hanging the camera from the heli frame with some fishing line and lift it aloft like it was a load.... anything that can isolate the camera from the rotor vibration. I bet the crawl would go away.
Ha! Well, you should try flying a Lama IV multi rotor in buffeting headwinds.

I can do this again and when I do, I'll figure out how to make a harness for the camera to hang in. Landings will be tricky, unless I hang the camera way down and land it first, them move over and land the heli. But, like yourself, I would like to put the vibration and crawl issue to and end and that may be the way to do it. I'll design something and we'll see if that is what it is.

But, I've noticed also that when I mount the camera on its side and video a flight, when I rotate it 90* in Movie Maker, it exacerbates the problem.
I often get low res video when I mount it on it's side too. Weird.

If you noticed also in the video, as I was descending I got into the toilet bowl effect each time. That makes the heli want to wobble around and if you are very careful with the throttle you can fly through it. I can't say much for the final landing here though! LOL!
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Old Sep 01, 2007, 07:21 PM
Curiouser and curiouser
Kokopeli's Avatar
Rochester, NY, USA
Joined Oct 2005
2,062 Posts
I'd like to throw my two cents (well, maybe a buck fifty) into this. I have been watching this wavyness on 5-in-1 on vids for a while now and had my own theories. I just got my first 5-in-1 and did some experiments - not on board yet, just hand held. I'm with boomer - think it is vibration. When you mount it on a body that has some source of vibration present (rotating motor) you will get different vibration responses in various places on the plane at various vibration rates. It all has to do with resonance. Way back in my physics classes I learned way more than I wanted to know about it at times - it was VERY mathmatical - having to do with mass/spring systems and differential equations. The larger the mass the more response from the lower frequencies. The higher the spring constant (stiffer) the more the mass/spring system will respond to higher frequencies. So, your plane is loaded with many mass/spring systems. And where ever you attach your camera (mass) it is connected to some spring (stiff or not so stiff). And there are other mass/spring systems on your plane - all of them just eager to respond with a whole lot of shaking as the motor rotation reaches their respective sweet spots (resonances). Theres is a whole lotta shaken goin on. Any one of them could transfer energy (through coupled s/m systems) to the camera and cause it to shake. It is a crap shoot that you must experiment with to find a place to mount your camera to minimize this problem.
Now, there is another aspect of the problem to magnify the above problem - the frequency on the raster scan (sweep of the digitization across the picture field). If this scan sweep is ALMOST in sync with the magnified vibration, you will get a relatively slow looking wavyness in your picture because sucessive scans will be off progressively by just a little with each succeding scan - makes for a sickening looking moving picture that progresses across the screen - this is called beating.
Bottom line: unless you have some access to very sophistocated structural analysis to minimize these effects, you must just look at the structure and make an educated guess as to where the mass/spring problem is and try to change the mass and/or the spring - and when that doesn't work, try again, until you get it right. In control systems design the engineers try to model and predict the frequencies at which there will be a problem and then program the controller to ramp up through those frequency bands as fast as possible before the resonance has a chance to build up enough energy to cause a problem. That way, all of the speed control is done in the frequency bands that are between the ugly frequency bands. BTW, putting the video through a video editor may change the sampling rate, and therefore the effective scan rate and make the problem worse (maybe even better).
Bet this is WAY more than you wanted to know, eh?
So just take your neat little cheap plane and your awsome little camera and have lots of fun experimenting with getting it right - just like you did building and/or designing the plane.

Walt
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Old Sep 01, 2007, 09:21 PM
This is fun!
BosTom's Avatar
Winchester, MA
Joined Jan 2007
1,350 Posts
The waviness is caused by vibration from the motor. I have it both in my videos and still pictures.

The trick is to isolate the camera with some foam. I have also positioned the camera in several places until I found the spot that has the least vibration.

It doesn't matter waht camera you use. I have the ST-Lab, PockeTeck and Aiptek cameras and it happens to all of them.

My trick is to get some altitude, cut the engine and glide.

Tom
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