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Old Dec 31, 2012, 02:39 PM
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Hello RCGroups! I've found the forum very helpful in the past with my Mini Heli's and just wanted some input on my new Heli! Since i (for whatever reason) feel the need to fully explain everything i'll make a short version to those who could care less of why i'm looking at upgrading and a long version for those who may be interested or just have the time to read it all.

Short Version:
Looking to get these upgrades for my Lama v4
1. Xtreme V1 Blue Hard Blades
2. Xtreme Aluminum Head with inner shaft (+8mm)
3. Xtreme Aluminum Lower Hub
4. Xtreme Aluminum Swash Plate
5. Shorter Flybar. Been having trouble finding one except the Xtreme LED ones but i'm on a budget right now.
6. A second flybar link? Is there a reason they only have 1 link and not 2? Is this designed to let the flybar come off to prevent more damage?

Any other recommended upgrades? What do you think of my part choices? Would you recommend something different?

Long Version:
Okay so i just got a Lama v4 and my brother got the hunter (same exact thing pretty much right? Just different fuselage?) and we found out quickly were going to need some stronger blades. Xtreme V1 Blue Hard Blades? or are there better ones for around the same or cheaper price? (Figured i'd get the blue ones to match my fuselage.)

Not sure if this was the issue for our blades getting banged up but the flybar didn't seem to want to stay on the Heli. It kept popping off and perhaps smacking the blades or getting caught in them somehow. From this my Head actually has a small crack in it which makes it even easier for the flybar to pop off. So i figured i should upgrade this so it can't break. Xtreme Aluminum Head with inner shaft (+8mm)? or would you recommend something else?

And i figured since i'm upgrading i my as well add some more right? So i figured i could upgrade to an Xtreme Aluminum Lower Hub and Xtreme Aluminum Swash Plate. Also want to add a shorter flybar to help with blades hitting each other although the extended inner shaft should take care of that but figured what the heck. Also want to look into a second flybar link? Is there a reason they only have 1 link and not 2? Is this designed to let the flybar come off to prevent more damage?

Any other recommended upgrades? What do you think of my part choices? Would you recommend something different?

What do you think of this deal?:
Click Here
I'm currently in the process of messaging the seller to verify exactly what i'm getting. The parts aren't legit ESky parts. Made out of CNC Alloy. The seller has great feedback and already sold 88 of these sets so i'm sure it includes all the parts in the picture but am messaging the seller to make sure. So lets assume it does come with everything pictured, would you trust the product? Or just go with legit aluminum parts?

Thanks for any and all help you can provide!
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Old Jan 01, 2013, 08:10 AM
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Hilton (Rochester), NY
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What a shopping list!
For some reason, it is thought that the purple set is absolute junk! I have no idea what differentiates one from another, but .... There are things Xtreme makes that aren't too great, but their blades and a lot of their coax parts/ mods are not bad. If you're getting an Xtreme extended shaft (really a taller head with a stock shaft length), you might as well get the 12MM if you can find one. It's actually a good thing that the actual shaft is a stock length because then you won't have a problem finding a replacement when you bend one. I make it sound as if you WILL bend one because the extra length of the head tends to make it want to bend up on top of the shaft - and it will. The opposite approach to this would be to actually make the inner shaft longer, but then you'd have to make the outer shaft longer or make an intermediate piece that supported the inner shaft - if the inner shaft is longer than the outer one, you have a section of the inner shaft that is sticking up unsupported and, in flight, that section can and will slide up and down and the inner shaft gear will not stay engaged with the motor pinion. See, it gets complicated in a hurry.
Blades are a subject unto itself. Xtreme makes their harder blades and they even come in colors that might go with your overall color scheme. I also use Airy blades:

Airy blades for Lama 4/ cx2 $8.90 http://www.helipal.com/airy-harden-blade-ax-03.html

Xtreme 55 Degree blades (less lift but better forward flight):

Xtreme 55 Degree blades $3.30/pr http://www.slickzero.com/page/SRHP/P...dles/ESL503-55

AFC blades - no recent link

There are blade stiffeners that prevent the blades from coning near the root:

Blade stiffeners $3.95 http://helideluxe2010.ecrater.com/se...eners&x=37&y=7

The prices are not current prices as I haven't ordered any recently.

The shortened flybar prevents a phenomenon known as porpoising ( fly forward 10 feet, level out and sit, repeat, repeat, repeat = annoying!). Even though I have a shortened flybar, my latest version of the Lama still has this problem and I guess it's going to take a LOT of adjusting the weight positions to get out of this. The shortened flybar not only starts out with the weights in closer to each other, but they are held to the flybar by set screws (NOT grub screws) and you can affect flight characteristics by moving them closer to the center in small, but EQUAL amounts. It is a very worthwhile investment. A shorter flybar will not help blade strikes. As you surmise, the extended shaft helps with that.
You did not mention the canopy. This latest heli I mentioned was actually bought before last Christmas. I tried to live with the nice 1-piece canopy of the A-300, but it got to be a royal PITA to deal with. You cannot adjust much of anything without removing all 4 blades and then struggling to take off the canopy. Most of us have seen the light on the Lama 4 and gone to a pod -N-boom heli. You throw away the original canopy design and go with a front canopy (yes, they're usually the Xtreme version) and replace the back canopy with a boom. You can buy an expensive boom kit or you can use an Xtreme boom bracket and a piece of CF tube or rod:

Xtreme tail boom bracket $2.93 http://www.miracle-mart.com/store/in...oducts_id=1461

Now that I've suggested you might not want a boom kit, I've recently seen this Xtreme kit that's at a decent price:

Xtreme Boom Assembly $7.99 http://www.ebay.com/itm/E-Flite-Blad...item43ae39993b

I guess this is the point where I advise you guys to learn to fly what you have before jumping in and spending a LOT of money on mods. You've read stuff on here written by guys who have been around the block with their heli's and know what works and what doesn't. It also depends on your budget and your flying style. This is a cheap heli compared to where you can go with these things. You can easily spend another $100 to make this $100 heli closer to what you'd like it to be. Until you're happy with what it is and what it can do, don't dump a ton of money into it and then get discouraged and put it on a shelf.
We're talking mod stuff here, but there is one fundamental thing you HAVE to learn from day#1: If it looks as if you're going to crash, KILL THE THROTTLE before you crash!!!! If the throttle is still on and the blades cannot turn, you can burn out a VERY EXPENSIVE 4-in-1 module = $45 or more!!!!! You can replace parts that break in a crash, but you don't want it to be the most expensive part on the heli!
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Old Jan 01, 2013, 10:17 AM
NotAnotherMomentLostToSei zures
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United States, MA, Malden
Joined Mar 2008
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Hope you all don't mind a bit of cross posting


The person who started the V4 thread is no longer around to update it. I agree that some of the stuff on page one is out of date.

You can actually fly the V4 without a boom but you would have trouble staying course because of the sensitivity of the gyro. You would get a tremendous amount of tail wag.

Most of the Guys like myself have gotten Xtreme parts from Boomtown Hobbies.
http://www.boomtownhobbies.com/category_s/37.htm

I have the Xtreme swash (as you pointed out), Sport flybar, Model 4 Boom, Xtreme "B" gear & shaft and BoomTown skids. I fly Aero~Nuts motors ONLY: http://www.aero-nuts.com/product_inf...roducts_id=554

Because they come from China, I usually order 4 pairs at a time. Nice motors for the money. Large vents to help with cooling. If you keep your flying time to about 8 minutes you'll average about 80/100 flights.

I fly Phase II plastic blades only. They also come in CF found here: http://rc24seven.ecrater.com/c/1363160/lama-v4-series

And here along with my favorite Skytec parts: http://www.helideluxe2010.ecrater.com/
Lower head, upper collar, upper bearing holder.

Skytec is the "crème de la crème" from Germany. Expensive? Absolutely! Are their parts worth it? Again...absolutely.

So, lets go to the V4 thread where others will enjoy our thoughts and be shared. Besides, it's just not fair jamming up the first page of the coax forum with two V4 threads. Again, see ya on the other side
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...27689&page=700

Mike.
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Old Jan 01, 2013, 11:05 AM
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Hilton (Rochester), NY
Joined Mar 2008
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You're in the Esky Lama thread, so, I guess I don't understand what you're saying about threads and 2 threads? Since there are a couple too many threads in the coax forum, I use the My RCGroups button in the upper left to only go to the threads I frequent and skip over all of the other BS in the forum. This is why we do NOT recommend starting a new thread for a heli that already has an established thread. Most of us just don't look at all the threads out there.
I didn't get into Aero-Nutz motors, but I agree they are the way to go for brushed motors. As posted just a few posts ago, I switched out my stock motors to them.
It's a great thing that this heli comes with pivoting blade grips because that's a necessity.
I forgot the Phase 2 blades. They're a good choice too.
There are 3D Pro blades that I did NOT have any luck with.
BTW, the reason the flybar will not stay put in the stock plastic yoke is because the plastic very rapidly gets worn and/ or spread apart. The problem goes away when you go to a metal extended shaft version = a twofer. You get an extended shaft and it keeps the flybar in place.. Just don't lose the screws that hold the top cap in place. There's a mod/ solution for that too called the infamous Bullet Mod. In the holes used for the top cap screws, insert a short piece of 2MM CF rod with grommets at each end. Instead of the flybar pivot being in contact with two U-shape pieces of the cap, it's only in point contact with the CF rod.
Some have used double flybar links, but I haven't done that to either my Lama 4 nor my CX2.
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Old Jan 01, 2013, 11:48 AM
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Joined Aug 2002
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kodak_jack View Post
You're in the Esky Lama thread, so, I guess I don't understand what you're saying about threads and 2 threads? Since there are a couple too many threads in the coax forum, I use the My RCGroups button in the upper left to only go to the threads I frequent and skip over all of the other BS in the forum. This is why we do NOT recommend starting a new thread for a heli that already has an established thread. Most of us just don't look at all the threads out there.
I didn't get into Aero-Nutz motors, but I agree they are the way to go for brushed motors. As posted just a few posts ago, I switched out my stock motors to them.
It's a great thing that this heli comes with pivoting blade grips because that's a necessity.
I forgot the Phase 2 blades. They're a good choice too.
There are 3D Pro blades that I did NOT have any luck with.
BTW, the reason the flybar will not stay put in the stock plastic yoke is because the plastic very rapidly gets worn and/ or spread apart. The problem goes away when you go to a metal extended shaft version = a twofer. You get an extended shaft and it keeps the flybar in place.. Just don't lose the screws that hold the top cap in place. There's a mod/ solution for that too called the infamous Bullet Mod. In the holes used for the top cap screws, insert a short piece of 2MM CF rod with grommets at each end. Instead of the flybar pivot being in contact with two U-shape pieces of the cap, it's only in point contact with the CF rod.
Some have used double flybar links, but I haven't done that to either my Lama 4 nor my CX2.
Losing flybar's is one reason I quit flying the Lama 4 and the lama 3. Before I figured out a mod... I leashed the flybar to the helicopter with a short piece of fishing line. It was inevitable that the fly bar was going to fly off... but at least this way I didn't lose it. I tried a lot of mods but the one that works best is to cut a short piece of brass tubing that will fit over the head tightly. Then, use your dremel to cut into the end of the tubing. That will leave a slot on each side for the fly bar to move in. But, if you have the right size tubing (I believe 1/8th ") no matter what you do with the helicopter, the fly bar will not come off. Just be sure the slots let the fly bar move freely and that will take care of the problem.
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Old Jan 01, 2013, 07:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kodak_jack View Post
You're in the Esky Lama thread, so, I guess I don't understand what you're saying about threads and 2 threads?
He just Copy and Pasted his response to me in my other Thread. Same thing i did with my post.

Wow thanks for all the good information guys. Also for taking the time to post.

I guess first thing i gotta do is actually learn how to fly 4 channel better. 3 channel is a piece of cake but that one extra control just get's confusing for someone with just 3 short flights of experience.

So, being on a budget. What are parts you would recommend me get ASAP? I figure stronger blades is a must (think i'll stick with the cheaper Xtreme ones). Extended Inner Shaft + Head (12mm). Anything else? I figure i will eventually get a flybar, tail boom, and swashplate but like you said i don't wanna spend a lot of money on it then get discouraged and leave it sit on a shelf.

Thanks again for the help. Really appreciate it!
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Old Jan 01, 2013, 09:05 PM
NotAnotherMomentLostToSei zures
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United States, MA, Malden
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BlazingT, You will need this link. If and when you remove the outer shaft,,..careful of that brass washer. Ask me how I know It's all right here:
http://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=69665
(credit to "mnwizard").

Mike.

@BlazingT

Again, here is a link to the break down of the V4. Complete with pictures I suggest (again) you click on the link and put it in favorite places.

@E2 Good job Bud

Mike.
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Old Jan 02, 2013, 06:39 AM
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Buzz, what you've described is what normally comes with a metal extended shaft in the way of the cap that goes on top. The only problem is it is held on by two tiny screws that can and will come out and get lost. Somebody on here has a picture of the bullet mod and will post it so you can see what we're talking about. Thank heaven we have a nice method of posting pictures on here because I'd like to get some help in identifying a shut off valve I have in a handy man forum and you need to belong to this photo sharing site and cut and paste this information from the photo and size it to this size and jump up and down on one leg while rubbing the top of your head!!
BTW, if you run into a problem with the inner shaft gear or the outer shaft, Tiger, the Eflite gears and shafts from the Eflite CX2 are cheaper and available from your local hobby shop. Also note that the Esky Lama 3 and Lama 4 are two different animals. Do NOT buy a Lama 3 outer shaft and try to use the mounting locations for Lama 4 components. They're different.
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Old Jan 02, 2013, 08:51 AM
NotAnotherMomentLostToSei zures
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Here is the "Bullet" mod. As JK said, I used 2.00mm CF rod going through the holes that screws would normally go. I held it in place with gas line tubing:
http://shop.dubro.com/p/2-ft-super-b...e-tubing-small
^^^^^^
Many uses

You can also use grommets as KJ suggests. This mod cuts down on flybar binding. I highly recommend this mod.

Mike.
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Old Jan 02, 2013, 09:34 AM
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I wish somebody knew how to sticky that info so we're not constantly re-posting it!
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Old Jan 02, 2013, 10:44 AM
Forever WTTM Pilot #7
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Joined Aug 2002
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kodak_jack View Post
Buzz, what you've described is what normally comes with a metal extended shaft in the way of the cap that goes on top. The only problem is it is held on by two tiny screws that can and will come out and get lost. Somebody on here has a picture of the bullet mod and will post it so you can see what we're talking about. Thank heaven we have a nice method of posting pictures on here because I'd like to get some help in identifying a shut off valve I have in a handy man forum and you need to belong to this photo sharing site and cut and paste this information from the photo and size it to this size and jump up and down on one leg while rubbing the top of your head!!
BTW, if you run into a problem with the inner shaft gear or the outer shaft, Tiger, the Eflite gears and shafts from the Eflite CX2 are cheaper and available from your local hobby shop. Also note that the Esky Lama 3 and Lama 4 are two different animals. Do NOT buy a Lama 3 outer shaft and try to use the mounting locations for Lama 4 components. They're different.
Hey, Jack.... No we're still talking about two different things. I'm talking about the flybar on the Lama 3, Lama 4, and a lot of other heli's that rely on the "snap in" bar on the very top of the head. I've done the mods you've noted, but this is easier and faster and fits most of the snap in flybar type helicopters. I uploaded the photos so you can see what my solution is. It works great and you can make one in about 5 minutes.
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Old Jan 02, 2013, 02:40 PM
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For now i'm using a temporary solution... DUCKTAPE! It works for now. A bit too windy outside right now. Flew it into the clothes line and now the servo's grind with the body on and stops the blades. But with the body off it seems to be okay. Everything looks fine with the body off so idk whats going on.
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Old Jan 02, 2013, 02:50 PM
NotAnotherMomentLostToSei zures
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United States, MA, Malden
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Take the fuse off and check the servos. They should be sitting nice and solid in place. They should not be loose. They are only held in there with double sided tape. I use a few drops of CA here and there. Also check and make sure the fuse is not hitting the servo arms if the arms are not cut down. It is usually the longer servo arms that will hit the fuse on the inside.

Mike.
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Old Jan 02, 2013, 02:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlazingTiger View Post
For now i'm using a temporary solution... DUCKTAPE! It works for now. A bit too windy outside right now. Flew it into the clothes line and now the servo's grind with the body on and stops the blades. But with the body off it seems to be okay. Everything looks fine with the body off so idk whats going on.
I like the way you're thinking! I've survived many episodes of contact with Mother Earth by using tape. At times I've survived with only tape and/or JBWeld epoxy. If you knocked the body loose from the mounts... there is only one way to fly it until you get new tubing mounts. Put a big rubber band over the fuselage and under the skids. You need two of them... one for in front of the rotor shaft and one for behind. That will get you flying with a ghetto fix. The grinding noise is probably coming from the servo arm scraping against the inside of the fuselage. The rubber band fix will probably stop that... but it wouldn't hurt to make sure your servos are pushed all the way into the mounts.

Sorry, Mike. I think we pushed "send" at the same time
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Old Jan 02, 2013, 03:01 PM
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Servo's seems secure. And i think it may have something to do with the swashplate actually. Took the fuse off. And extreme pitch and roll movements make the swashplate shake up and down. Is that silver bearing thing suppose to up like inside the swashplate like that? Or is it suppose to be all the down? It moves with the swashplate. Not sure if thats suppose to happen?
[IMG][/IMG]
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