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Old Apr 03, 2009, 12:21 PM
We shall serve the Lord
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I think you're on the right track. Depending on the amount of spoiler, you may even need to mix in a little up elevator to keep the nose up on landing.
McD
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Old Apr 03, 2009, 12:47 PM
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Knoxville, TN
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Don,
It's certainly a valid thought, especially since you are thinking spoilerons on landing. I think you said you were using an RDS8000. I've done it on another airplane using an RD6000 and it worked pretty well, at least programming wise. I just got a new RDS8000 and from what I've seen it should work the same.

One intial thought, using the flaps for take off on this plane, with the ailerons out on the wing tips, be sure to pull the flaps up before you do any hard pull ups, especially if you are using a heavy battery and have a heavier AUW. A heavy fuselage, and flaps on the tips could lead to some good wing flexing. It's probably not going to be an issue, the wing can probably take it, but I'd hate to see it fail on you. And last, just remember, no matter what direction you put them, up or down, trailing edge only high lift devices will change the pitch attitude at any given speed, which could have a dramatic effect on proper speed and pitch for the most critical phase off flight, landing.

So long as you know all that, give it a go and see what happens. Try different speeds and amounts of deflection to get your desired results. Just don't be surprised if you find it doesn't help, or get you what you are looking for. When I did it, it didn't really make enough of a difference to make it worth while, so much so that I removed it and went back to stock when I sold the airplane. But as I said, give it a go, the best part is all the flight testing! Who doesn't like that? Be sure to let us know if you discovered something good!

Eric
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Old Apr 03, 2009, 01:20 PM
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Darien,IL,USA
Joined Jul 2000
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Thanks Mike and Eric,
I would only use the flaps for intitial lift off, then switch the flaps off.
Good comment about the ailerons being at the outer wing portions which could be problematic, if stress is induced because of weight loading.

Mike:
Good suggestion for mixing in some up elevator with the spoilerons to keep the nose up. Certainly some experimenting will be in order, like you guys have said. That's why I asked if anyone has tried flaps & spoilerons with the Seawind before.

I've removed the single aileron white plastic plate from the wing and will remove some of the foam area to accomodate both servos. I'm now fabricating a plywood plate for both servos.

This is a very easy modification, not difficult to do.
I'll post photos later.
Thanks guys,
Don
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Old Apr 04, 2009, 09:57 AM
WAA-08 Pilot Eventually
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Darien,IL,USA
Joined Jul 2000
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Update on motor install and wattmeter test with stock 8x6 prop, balanced:
AXI 2212/20 motor
3s Electrifly 1500 mah lipo battery 125 watts, 14 amps
3s Zippy 2200 mah lipo battery 225 watts, 20 amps

Now back to the twin aileron servo install,
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Old Apr 04, 2009, 11:35 AM
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Don,
What is the C rating on these two batteries? It's to be expected to get a little better results from a bigger battery that will hold it's volts better under load, but 100 watts difference sure seems like a lot to me. If those numbers are accurate, I'm not sure I would use the 1500, it appears to be pushing it extremely hard. I carry 2200's all day long with no problems, but I'm using a lower Kv motor (1000kv) with a larger prop (9x6). I'm getting 30+ ounces of thrust and drawing about 16 amps at WOT. She flies great! If those are the only two battery sizes you have, I'd at least start with the 2200 to make sure you have plenty of power. 125watts just seems kind of low to me. Plus with no real airflow in the compartment, I would worry about that 1500 getting pretty hot, if it's being pushed as hard as it seems.

If I'm reading your data wrong, just disregard!

Eric
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Old Apr 04, 2009, 01:26 PM
WAA-08 Pilot Eventually
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Darien,IL,USA
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Eric,
Both are 20C.
Here's the E-calc data for the Rimfire 28-30-1450 motor.
I used the AXI because it was on the shelf.
I've seen the Seawind fly with that motor and it was pretty "hot".
I'm a more sedate pilot, not interested in "aerobatic" performance.
Loops and rolls is all I want.
Don
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Old Apr 04, 2009, 01:54 PM
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Don,
Let me ask, I've never really used that program, but are those calculated numbers, or actual results you are seeing from testing?

I don't think I would use the Rimfire 1450kv either, it would certainly be hot. I'm not an acrobatic flyer either, loops and rolls are about all I am doing as well. I'm not saying the setup you are using wouldn't work, just that the 100watt difference between batteries sure seemed odd to me. That's all.

Also, if you haven't finished your build, just know that if you don't use a Rimfire you will have to modify the motor mount.

Eric
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Old Apr 04, 2009, 03:30 PM
WAA-08 Pilot Eventually
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Darien,IL,USA
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Eric,
It's a great program.
I've been using it for many years as a reference.
How exact is it? Well it gives me a pretty good "ball-park" performance guide, that I find to be pretty close to actual performance.
I like the fact that you can input changes and evaluate, before going out to the field. It has never disappointed me.
You can check out their website at:
www.slkelectronics.com/ecalc/index.htm

Yes, you are correct, I had to remove the Rimfire "motor mount" and replace it with a plywood piece for the Axi motor. The Rimfire uses three holes and the Axi uses four. Not a big modification.
Don
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Old Apr 04, 2009, 08:12 PM
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Amherst, NH
Joined Mar 2009
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How fast does the Seawind fly with the recommended stock setup - Electrifly SS-25 and Rimfire 28-30-950? I bought my Seawind a few weeks ago and still have not had the time to set it up, hopefully soon. This is my first aileron plane so I am wondering about the speed and it if can be flown at a reasonably slow pace and still maintain its' flight characteristics, just until I get used to it
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Old Apr 04, 2009, 09:14 PM
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Knoxville, TN
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Don, I did the same thing. Took a little time, just wanted to make sure I didn't alter the tilt of the stock mount. And then making the new plate wasn't too bad either. I eventually coated the new plate with water based polyurethane to make sure it wouldn't absorb water.


Spackle, you might be able to alter the speed some, if you keep the weight low. Take a look back at my video, and possibly some other's videos to see if it's something that is good for your experience level. I'm running a motor with very similar specs to the Rimfire 950kv motor for comparison. The chord line (an imaginary line from the leading edge to the trailing edge) is pretty short for this airplane. So the wing area really isn't that high either. Lift has to come from a little higher speed. But as I said, a lighter weight might allow a speed you can live with for now.

Eric
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Old Apr 04, 2009, 09:42 PM
We shall serve the Lord
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United States, TX, Kingsland
Joined Sep 2005
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Spackle,
You should check out the Seawind review here:
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=703822
Watch the videos and you will see that it is recommended for intermediate skill level pilots. It may be a bit much for a 1st aileron plane. That being said, IF you have an experienced pilot that can put you on a buddy box till you get used to the plane, then the Seawind may work for you.
McD
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Old Apr 05, 2009, 08:25 AM
WAA-08 Pilot Eventually
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Darien,IL,USA
Joined Jul 2000
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Dual Aileron servo install update

Removed the white plastic plate for the single aileron servo.
Enlarged the area to accomodate two serevos, with a #11 blade.
Epoxied the thin wood strips for mounting the servos.
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Old Apr 06, 2009, 07:11 AM
WAA-08 Pilot Eventually
donjiskra's Avatar
Darien,IL,USA
Joined Jul 2000
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Dual Aileron servos installed

Both HITECH 55 servos are now installed.

The red tape indicates the Right Aileron.
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Old Apr 06, 2009, 07:21 AM
We shall serve the Lord
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United States, TX, Kingsland
Joined Sep 2005
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You've made it look mighty easy Don. Let us know how how she flies with the mod.
McD
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Old Apr 06, 2009, 10:13 AM
WAA-08 Pilot Eventually
donjiskra's Avatar
Darien,IL,USA
Joined Jul 2000
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Mike,
It was VERY easy!!!!
Next step, to program my new Airtonic RDS8000 2.4ghz transmitter for flap and spoileron operation.
I plan on the May 1st "Float Fly" event for the maiden flight. Will let you know the results then.
Don
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