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Old Aug 19, 2012, 10:11 PM
Electric Coolhunter
Thomas B's Avatar
United States, TX, Fort Worth
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Originally Posted by racer7696 View Post
has any one come up with any ideas of doing something like the silicone sealing of the wing area to the hatch area.The hatch area to me is were I get water into not so much the wing
The silicone from in place seal works on both the hatch to fuselage joint and on the wing to wing saddle joint. Same exact process.
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Old Aug 20, 2012, 06:28 AM
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Originally Posted by racer7696 View Post
has any one come up with any ideas of doing something like the silicone sealing of the wing area to the hatch area.The hatch area to me is were I get water into not so much the wing
If you read back a few months, there are many descriptions on what to do about water. The best is to add a drain whole near the step and just let the water run out. It won't get high enough to bother any electronics. Short story is used Corrosion X, Corrosion Block on a waterproofing spray. If you do that correctly, you can absolutely drown your bird and be flying in 20 seconds. If you want a totally waterproof cockpit, then the Icon A4 by Parkzone is pretty amazing.

You'll have to waterproof the electronics anyway in case you flip and flood. All silicone sealant seems to do is hold the water in.

Also, I would not cut down the wing tips. There really is no need if you fly it correctly. If you do, you loose some flotation in the tips causing it to roll upside down in a breeze as you turn in the water. This is what happened all the time when I had even a small portion cut off. Just leave them alone as they do work well enough.

I have had 4 of these, and this is what I have done to reduce the flight failures.

Mike
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Old Aug 20, 2012, 07:11 AM
Electric Coolhunter
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Originally Posted by va3mw View Post
........

Also, I would not cut down the wing tips. There really is no need if you fly it correctly. If you do, you loose some flotation in the tips causing it to roll upside down in a breeze as you turn in the water. This is what happened all the time when I had even a small portion cut off. Just leave them alone as they do work well enough.

I have had 4 of these, and this is what I have done to reduce the flight failures.

Mike
Not sure what you did when you cut your tips down, but I have flown mine with cut down tips, as illustrated a couple of posts back extensively in variable wind and wave conditions and it hardly dips the tip at all, much less turns upside down. There is much more floation in the wing tip with the tip cut down than it needs.

A basic tenant of seaplane design is that the tip floats should not both touch the surface of the water when at rest., or in a slow taxi. The little Seawind fails this test. Taking a small amount of foam off the tips cures this shortcoming and greatly improves the water handling and the ability to fly when there are more than little ripples on the water surface.

While it can be flown as is, why not make it a much more pleasant model to fly?
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Old Aug 20, 2012, 08:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Thomas B View Post
Not sure what you did when you cut your tips down, but I have flown mine with cut down tips, as illustrated a couple of posts back extensively in variable wind and wave conditions and it hardly dips the tip at all, much less turns upside down. There is much more floation in the wing tip with the tip cut down than it needs.

A basic tenant of seaplane design is that the tip floats should not both touch the surface of the water when at rest., or in a slow taxi. The little Seawind fails this test. Taking a small amount of foam off the tips cures this shortcoming and greatly improves the water handling and the ability to fly when there are more than little ripples on the water surface.

While it can be flown as is, why not make it a much more pleasant model to fly?
I cut the tips on my first one as described and immediately regretted it. Even as designed, they don't grab at all. While taxiing one day in about a 10km/h wind, the lee tip dug in as it didn't have the flotation it once had and then rolled over as the wind got under the windward side of the wing. This was while trying to use the water rudder to taxi.

I disagree on the tip floats not touching by basic design as it does not apply to all planes. My PBY and CL415 might fall into that category, but then you have high speed air flowing over the ailerons and that allows you to adjust them. Not the case with the Seawind.

The Aeroprakt A-24 wing tips floats touch in slow taxi.

Any Seawind I have had has taxied great right out of the box.

My results are totally opposite what you describe especially if there are any sort of waves.

I also did mount 2 servos for ailerons for one of my models, but again, found it wasn't worth the time and effort. Using them as flaperons or spoilerons wasnt' hugely effective, but it did look cool.

My last one came with a bad ESC so it didn't seem to have the same power as the previous 2 (it was the RXR model). In fact, the servos all had to be replaced.

I would recommend that anyone new to the Seawind take the time to fly it as designed and then make any changes they wish to make. Do you not think that if cutting the wind tips down was the right thing to do, they would do it at the factory?

Maybe this is the reason the company is having problems getting the real Seawind into commercial production. I have 1 friend that put a downpayment on a real Seawind, but pulled it after the flight specs were really investigated.
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Old Aug 20, 2012, 09:32 AM
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Could you post a pic of the drain hole location and maybe a few more particulars about doing this mod?(Hole size,angles etc)-Thanks

Quote:
Originally Posted by va3mw View Post
If you read back a few months, there are many descriptions on what to do about water. The best is to add a drain whole near the step and just let the water run out. It won't get high enough to bother any electronics. Short story is used Corrosion X, Corrosion Block on a waterproofing spray. If you do that correctly, you can absolutely drown your bird and be flying in 20 seconds. If you want a totally waterproof cockpit, then the Icon A4 by Parkzone is pretty amazing.

You'll have to waterproof the electronics anyway in case you flip and flood. All silicone sealant seems to do is hold the water in.

Also, I would not cut down the wing tips. There really is no need if you fly it correctly. If you do, you loose some flotation in the tips causing it to roll upside down in a breeze as you turn in the water. This is what happened all the time when I had even a small portion cut off. Just leave them alone as they do work well enough.

I have had 4 of these, and this is what I have done to reduce the flight failures.

Mike
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Old Aug 20, 2012, 02:54 PM
get high
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Who has the best price right now? Free ship? I would love to get one. Thanks
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Old Aug 20, 2012, 03:23 PM
raz
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This may have been done already so if it has forgive the re-post of it but I dicovered an ideal place for the RX totally out of the way of everything and unless the plane is inverted in the water totally dry. The hump section in the wing is hollow so I cut out a piece of the foam to fit around the RX then Velcro'd the RX to the back of the cockpit which puts the RX well above the water line so it should stay nice and dry. After putting the wing back down I ran a strip of clear tape over the seam just to be sure no spray could enter. Another way could be to slip the RX into the wing while it's being mounted but either way I think is much better that sitting on the floor with the water. I also glued a piece of string to the cockpit so it stays with the plane if it should get knocked off.
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Old Aug 20, 2012, 03:44 PM
raz
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Originally Posted by va3mw View Post

You'll have to waterproof the electronics anyway in case you flip and flood. All silicone sealant seems to do is hold the water in.


Not if you install an auto-bailer. I think it should be added from the factory, after all, it is part boat.
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Old Aug 20, 2012, 11:38 PM
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Your wing mount looks like it has been pulled off the foam on the right side? or is it an optical illusion?. I reglued mine and for extra measures I took 2 tie wraps and secured it down with them as well. Even if the glue lets go the tie wraps will keep the wing from flying off!And your antenna on you receiver shouldnt go in the same direction. They should be 90 deg from each other if possible.You could poke a hole in the foam where the receiver is mounted and put one antenna facing forward-just my 2 cents. But your seawind looks way better than mine. Many crashes with 30 hrs of flight, has even been on fire 2 years ago-but it keeps on flying. I have a brand new replacement in the basement just waiting

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Originally Posted by raz View Post
This may have been done already so if it has forgive the re-post of it but I dicovered an ideal place for the RX totally out of the way of everything and unless the plane is inverted in the water totally dry. The hump section in the wing is hollow so I cut out a piece of the foam to fit around the RX then Velcro'd the RX to the back of the cockpit which puts the RX well above the water line so it should stay nice and dry. After putting the wing back down I ran a strip of clear tape over the seam just to be sure no spray could enter. Another way could be to slip the RX into the wing while it's being mounted but either way I think is much better that sitting on the floor with the water. I also glued a piece of string to the cockpit so it stays with the plane if it should get knocked off.
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Old Aug 21, 2012, 08:40 AM
raz
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Originally Posted by fairplane View Post
Your wing mount looks like it has been pulled off the foam on the right side? or is it an optical illusion?. I reglued mine and for extra measures I took 2 tie wraps and secured it down with them as well. Even if the glue lets go the tie wraps will keep the wing from flying off!And your antenna on you receiver shouldnt go in the same direction. They should be 90 deg from each other if possible.You could poke a hole in the foam where the receiver is mounted and put one antenna facing forward-just my 2 cents. But your seawind looks way better than mine. Many crashes with 30 hrs of flight, has even been on fire 2 years ago-but it keeps on flying. I have a brand new replacement in the basement just waiting


You're right, the wing mount was coming loose but it was re-glued and I took your tip on the wire ties for added insurance. The antennas do run at 90 degrees to each other. One goes straight up close to the RX and the other runs down across the wing mount.
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Old Aug 21, 2012, 11:44 PM
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We are going to have to agree to disagree on this subject...my experience and a good number of others that have posted in here is the opposite of yours.
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Originally Posted by va3mw View Post
I cut the tips on my first one as described and immediately regretted it. Even as designed, they don't grab at all. While taxiing one day in about a 10km/h wind, the lee tip dug in as it didn't have the flotation it once had and then rolled over as the wind got under the windward side of the wing. This was while trying to use the water rudder to taxi.
Mine grabbed about half the time on the first three flights of my first model, even using full up elevator during takeoff. It got a little better when I moved the CG back, as we learned that we could after flying the model some and was a little better yet again with upthrust added...after I trimmed the tip floats, neither my first Seawind or my replacement when the first one wore out ever grabbed again.

Your model flipping over was more about the wind getting under the wing of a light foam model than it was about the loss of tip floatation. Once your lee tip get dug in a little in the crosswind, the outer portion of the wing panel provides more floation than the tiny removed part of the tip float ever did. I have landed mine crosswind regularly in up to a 10mph wind in some large "scale" waves and never had that issue, even with the slightly cut down tip floats.

Quote:

I disagree on the tip floats not touching by basic design as it does not apply to all planes. My PBY and CL415 might fall into that category, but then you have high speed air flowing over the ailerons and that allows you to adjust them. Not the case with the Seawind.
I don't understand your point...once any seaplane model is on the step moving for takeoff, they ALL have "high speed air flowing over the ailerons'. Once you trim the tip floats on the Seawind, it gains the ability to use ailerons to level the wings as needed during takeoff, like your CL-415 and PBY.

If you check in over at the Dynam PBY thread, everyone is shortening and changing the angle of the stock tip floats as Dynam got it wrong as well. The tip floats dig in just like the Seawind tip floats like to do, stock.

Quote:
The Aeroprakt A-24 wing tips floats touch in slow taxi.
Well, that is one obscure exception to the rule....

I stand by what I said about tip float clearances. With most real seaplanes, when a tip float grabs, it is a VERY bad situation...and expensive..... and dangerous. (Jimmy Buffet, an accomplished seaplane pilot as well as popular singer, nearly died when his real Grumman Widgeon grabbed a boat wake with a tip float. It water looped, dug in and flipped upside down and sank.)

With models, it is merely annoying. All you have to do to greatly allieviate this problem, both with models AND full scale seaplanes is to gain more clearance between the tip floats and the water when moving at more than a slow taxi. Also, increased up angle along the bottom of the tip float is a big help. Some seaplanes, like the A-24 you mentioned, have deeper V hulls that rise more as they accelerate up to getting on the step and they can get by with less static waterline clearance. Note that th A-24 has a huge amount of tip float clearance as it gets onto the step...much more than our poor little stock Seawind has at takeoff.

There are exceptions to any rule, but take a look at the pictures I posted at the end of this reply. Note the tip float postions at rest...

Quote:
Any Seawind I have had has taxied great right out of the box.
Never said it taxied badly...it is as stable as a table with both stock tip floats leaving little wakes at a low speed taxi...but it does tend to dig in one wingtip or the other during takeoff. It also taxis just fine with the cut down tip floats.

Quote:
My results are totally opposite what you describe especially if there are any sort of waves.
Don't know what you ae doing differently, but that is not my experience, at all.

..........

Quote:
I would recommend that anyone new to the Seawind take the time to fly it as designed and then make any changes they wish to make. Do you not think that if cutting the wind tips down was the right thing to do, they would do it at the factory?
Not me. I firmly endorse the mod, as do three guys I fly with and lots of folks in this thread. Great Planes did not get the big Seawind right either...it has other takeoff issues, more so than most seaplanes. I think once GP has the mold made, they lived with it, both on the EP model and the big one.

GP did learn something and did get the hulls and tip float design and clearances right on their next two seaplanes....the GP PBY and the GP Widgeon.They both have excellent water manners and do not require the need to hold full up elevator until liftoff.

Pictures below show typical tip float clearances at rest or moving very slowly. You will find that 90% or more of seaplane types do show this as a good design detail.

The last picture is of a real Seawind 3000..note the large amount of tip clearance of the far float when the Seawind is at rest. And, note the much better up angle of the tip float as compared to how GP molded the little EP Seawind..
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Old Aug 22, 2012, 10:33 AM
raz
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I've done the tip float mod on mine too and it's water handling has improved for sure.
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Old Aug 22, 2012, 09:02 PM
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im going to try it if it dosnt work how much can a new foam wing cost under thirty bucks Ill take the chance.I have corison xed everything so no more burn outs due to getting wet
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Old Aug 22, 2012, 10:01 PM
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Just save the pieces you cut off- you could awalys glue them back on- but I doubt you will!

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im going to try it if it dosnt work how much can a new foam wing cost under thirty bucks Ill take the chance.I have corison xed everything so no more burn outs due to getting wet
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Old Aug 24, 2012, 08:21 AM
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Not if you install an auto-bailer. I think it should be added from the factory, after all, it is part boat.
What auto bailer??

If you nose dive, the cockpit floods in less then 1 second just due to the shear force of the impact. No auto bailer is going to keep your cockpit dry. Impossible.

As for draining the water that WILL get in no matter what, just push a 1/8" hole in laterally from the step into the cockpit. Water will drain out as you fly.
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