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Old Aug 12, 2007, 04:51 AM
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Germany
Joined Jun 2007
142 Posts
Build Log
Scratch built PalmZ Polikarpov I-16

Hi folks,

been inspired seeing those very nice micro warbirds - but not (yet) enough to go for plantraco equipment, which is hard to get and very expensive over here - so I had a go on ripping apart my 2 day old palmZ.

Looked around for nice warbirds and found the polikarpov I-16 very cool.

A first 6.5" wingspan model was simply too small for its AUW, so I built another 8" that actually flew quite well, changed to a bigger motor without gears but then encountered the problem that the plane got flipped over to the right when applying sudden full throttle; and no way to compensate with cut in or glued on flaps and the like.

I hoped tat a larger overall size might get the project back in good shape, so I started another 9.8" (25cm) version.
I was lucky - the new one flies like a champ, even with motor off it glides through my whole appartment, it even glides better than some styrofoam gliders I bought.
And hey; if I push full throttle, she does a loop, no kidding!

I'm really happy how good she turned out, but I have one Problem now: as she glides much better than the original PalmZ, she would actually fly on lowest or second lowest throttle - but the palmZ electronics aren't meant to work this way since the original cannot glide and would always need thrust to have an effective rudder. So my question is: does anybody know how to do a "glider mod" like there is for the xTwins on it? I guess it is possible do solder in some diodes or whatever somewhere in the TX to make the rudder work even with no throttle... could you guys please help me out on that?

It would be nice to get as much control out of it as possible this way.

THX in advance and THX for all the inspiration!
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Old Aug 12, 2007, 01:37 PM
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boss's Avatar
Noord-Holland
Joined Dec 2003
208 Posts
Nice plane!

I was thinking about the same thing, modifying the palm-z. I don't have one, but your attempt is very encouraging. I also find the plantraco stuff very cool, but just a little too expensive for the moment. I'd like do do some attemps first with low cost controls like the palm-z.

I can't help you with the glider mod, altough I think it might be important to do so. How is the range of this plane?? Might be cool to try a scale plane, something like the 1/72 scale planes . But you'd need some range because they seem quite fast.

Keep the good work coming!

Luuk
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Old Aug 13, 2007, 07:25 AM
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Germany
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Downgraded her back to slowflyer... with the bigger motor but without rudder at lower than 1/2 throttle, she was mostly already somewhere in the middle of a loop when I could finally use some rudder
So I put the original motor with gears back in there, fixed an xTwin Prop onto it with some thread and extended the prop with some cellophane tape after some testing. Now she's back where the original was, just gliding much better, weighing a bit less (5.6), flying a bit longer...

Still tho - I want my power machine back! But I'll have to wait till someone comes up with a plan on how to alter the TX to allow rudder at all times, regardless of throttle...

AUW of the plane with bigger Motor is 6.3g btw.
The range is fine 5-6m indoors, but not even 3m outdoors at an overcast evening; pretty disappointing - hope this IR booster will do a good job here, wanna fly around the backyard
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Old Aug 17, 2007, 07:21 AM
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Some guy who knows well about electronics is currently working on a "rudder at all times" mod, while I am working on an IR booster. It works already, but I will have to do some more testing to check its benefits... the weather is too bad lately, wanna do some outdoor tests in different conditions; so far I can get the plane to spin up from anywhere in the appartment, around corners etc; so it seems to actually "boost".
As soon as I have everything figured out and tested, I'll provide a parts list (my setup is around 15$) and a circuit diagram here.

Oh, can someone point me to a good method of printing onto something very lightweight (foil/paper) to get the bird into a nice dress? Using stock paper would surely be too heavy, and I'd really like to print out instead of paint...
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Old Aug 17, 2007, 08:48 AM
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ghostmechanic's Avatar
United States, KS
Joined Mar 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tobu
Oh, can someone point me to a good method of printing onto something very lightweight (foil/paper) to get the bird into a nice dress? Using stock paper would surely be too heavy, and I'd really like to print out instead of paint...
This thread has some info in it somewhere about using tissue temporarily glued to a piece of printer paper to print graphics. http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=516219

I can't remember which page it's on. I used this method the first time I built the plane. It worked OK. I used a glue stick for photo albums that is temporary to glue the tissue to the paper & then Elmer's craft bond to glue the tissue down to the foam.

Sorry, I can't help you with the actual graphics to print. You might PM Mike Glass to see how he did it. I hope this helps some.
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Old Aug 17, 2007, 10:20 AM
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Germany
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THX so much for the Link!

Had some 3M spraymount left over; removable (blue) and permanent (red) cans.
I've split one layer off some tissue, sprayed it with the removable stuff and glued it carefully onto some stock paper - went like a charm. Printing also worked perfectly, I was afraid the printer might rip off the tissue when "grabbing" the paper, but everything went well

pulling off the tissue from the paper needs to be done very carefully, but it also works.

So, since the Design is not finished; i just applied the tissue to the Depron - as soon as my design is done, I'll spray the printed tissues again, but that time using the permanent spray mount; guess it's gonna werk out.
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Old Aug 17, 2007, 11:36 AM
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south shields. England
Joined May 2004
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Tobu
Nice project, but none too easy!. Despite the plane's fearsome looking dimensions it can be trimmed by using a far forward CG, coupled with plenty of negative stab incidence (also known as UP!!!)
I've attached a shot of Richard Crossley's "Rata" for inspiration, built at 8" span, and able to fly for 70 seconds on rubber power!! When I can do an airbrush job like that I'll die happy!!!
Good luck

Peter
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Old Aug 17, 2007, 12:33 PM
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Noord-Holland
Joined Dec 2003
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I now also have a plam-z, or wait, I had one. It is in bits and pieces now. I weight all of them. I have build a plane with the total weight a little under 5 grams, but it didn't fly (steer) very well. Next one will have the wing on top for more stability, couldn't resist the temptation of a small low wing plane .

A mod for the rudder would be great, flying without directional control at low speeds is worthless. A range mod would be nice too, would it make outdoor flying possible???

Luuk
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Old Aug 17, 2007, 02:20 PM
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United States, KS
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tobu no problem. I'm glad it worked for you. Don't thank me though, thank Mike Glass & the other guys that contributed to that thread. They are all much more creative than I. All I did was find a link to get you there.
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Old Aug 17, 2007, 03:05 PM
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Germany
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peter frostick
I've attached a shot of Richard Crossley's "Rata" for inspiration, built at 8" span, and able to fly for 70 seconds on rubber power!! When I can do an airbrush job like that I'll die happy!!!
Very nice. Yeah, I am lucky I can quite handle a digital airbrush in photoshop... Won't look as amazing as the RATA on the photo, since the tissue won't allow for such detail - but way more than if I tried hand painting it.

I've put the bird on my fine scale and it counts additional 0.1g for a "tissued" upper/lower wing - so simple math gives around 0.3-0.4g more for the fully dressed up plane - which again is superb for my needs.

Ingenious really, glueing tissue on paper to print it - whoever came up with that, awesome!!!

Just that it is like a "flying water color picture" now somehow... would you suggest me to clear coat her or rather be careful and avoid any kinda humidity?


Quote:
Originally Posted by boss
A mod for the rudder would be great, flying without directional control at low speeds is worthless. A range mod would be nice too, would it make outdoor flying possible???
The rudder mod will soon be reality, I'm sure. Yeah, worthless without it... I even had to downgrade her motor, so I was back at higher throttle at all times just to have some rudder
I talked to the guy who also did the xTwin rudder mod and the "x-ufo tx for everything (from silverlit)" mod. He also considers the fact that the rudder is "bang bang", but the trim has several steps (at least 8) to be very interesting - we'll see what he can come up with!

Also got some better dimensioned electronical components today, guess these will make for the right package now - hope I can finish the IR booster tonight. I heard it will boost the standard 5-6m indoors to around 30m; and I hope it will also boost my self experienced outdoor 3m range to maybe 6+ which would finally be fairly enough to cruise around in the backyard...

I'll keep y'all posted!
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Old Aug 17, 2007, 03:29 PM
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Peoria Il
Joined Jun 2007
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What about the "booster" made for it from Silverlit?
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Old Aug 17, 2007, 05:37 PM
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Germany
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spektrumdss
What about the "booster" made for it from Silverlit?
Does it even exist yet? Not in this country at least - that's why I'm making my own. But it would be interesting to compare an original booster's specs/cost to mine.
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Old Aug 18, 2007, 10:43 AM
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Noord-Holland
Joined Dec 2003
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here is my puppy :

uses all the palm-z electronics. Reversed the prop on the gearbox. Made from split depron, just over a mill thick.

Span: 20.5 cm (yes, one wing is larger that the other)
Weight: 5.17 grams

She could be lighter, but with a landing gear and some paint, the final weight of a second version will be about the same.

Unfortunately the motor does not run that well anymore, might be the gearbox that has been through some LRC's (living room chrashes). Ive put in a dd 6mm x-twin motor. Way too much power now, so I can't steer !!!

Next one will be made from thinner depron, because everything breaks, except the plane...

Let's start a Palm-Z mod thread!


Luuk
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Old Dec 29, 2008, 10:43 AM
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United States, ME
Joined Oct 2008
2,651 Posts
I have an old set of Avion i parts that I would like to put in my own design. I have built her, but have yet to put my gear on her for fear that she will not fly. My LHS doesn't carry the foam needed for the builds that you guys do such as the ones above. Because of this, I have built the plane with balsa. The WS is 10" and with 1/32" balsa ribs. My fuse is a light weight balsa stick. I am covering using the plastic wrap and glue stick method. What do you guys think? If tobu doesn't mind, I could post some pics.

Thanks guys,
PC49

BTW- If you feel that I am stepping on this thread, let me know and I will leave. I simply feel that I could learn with tobu and others viewing this thread. If you feel otherwise, please tell me.
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