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Old Nov 24, 2012, 12:52 PM
Southern Pride
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Haralson County GA. USA
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I was flying my Trex 450 sport with a Align DFC head and ZYX FBL unit yesterday . First flight was great ,three minutes into second flight FFF 30 feet up and complete power (motor) failure. Stipped gears in cyclics, two broke DFC thread links ( these must be designed to break in a crash) broke tail blade and set of mains ,plus landing gear.

Now I am thinking that perhaps the last crash a week or so ago was perhaps due to a series of brief power outages.My son to;d me yesterday that he heard the power drop for a split second twice before it shut down completely.

Perhaps the lost of signal feacture(?) on the Turnegy AE-45A was to blame but when total shut down happened it was less than 50 feet from me and I have flown it several hundred feet away numerious times in the past but with a different ESC. Note : I am using a sepertae BEC a Castle Creations one so not likely a low voltage issue.


Charles
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Old Nov 24, 2012, 12:58 PM
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Berkeley, California
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Charles— losing signal isn't an ESC event, although if you are using soft start the speed controller might go into that mode if radio contact breaks and is re-established.
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Old Nov 24, 2012, 01:12 PM
Southern Pride
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Haralson County GA. USA
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One of the feactures of this controller (ESC) is Throttle signal loss protection.

If the ESC does not see a throttle signal from the receiver it kills power to the motor or atleast that is the way I understand it and that is what it does on the bench.

The heli was in forward flight ,battery ll was 70% full, nothing was the lleast bit warm. No way low voltage,over current.over temperature etc. could have been the cause.

ESC is programmed for super soft start but once throttled up for 15 seconds plus it will not soft start again unless throttle is reduce very low for over 5 seconds. From time I saw and heard HS decaying to impact was perhaps 2 seconds. Motor had restarted right at impact I guess as I was in no hurry to hit throttle hold as I was hoping power would come back in time to save it and it did rip about 1/4 of the teeth off of the main.

Charles
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Old Nov 24, 2012, 01:55 PM
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What radio are you using? Some guys don't like to program soft start because of the possible dropping of throttle or loosing throttle signal will send the ESC back into soft start. I did this several times before finding my idle ups were not turned on for throttle. I had my negative pitch just not throttle. So I would go inverted the pitch would keep the heli in the air, but would slowly start to loose altitude. By the time I got it flipped back over the ESC had gone into soft start and acted like I had no throttle.
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Old Nov 24, 2012, 02:11 PM
Southern Pride
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Haralson County GA. USA
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I use soft start because the idea of forgetting to flip on TH and / or Low Throttle stick position in Normal Throttle curve mode and connecting a LiPoly and having it go to high power instantly scares the you know what out of me. I try to be very careful about this but we all have memory glitches at times and at 67 mine come more often.

As I posted above power was not off long enough for the ESC to reset back to soft start ,I bench tested it and after being up to speed as in St1 where I had been flying for several minutes I can cut the transmitter off and slow count to 3 and it takes perhaps 4 seconds to reach full power again when Trans. is turn4ed back on, part of this time ids the Spektrum AR6100 V1.6 rebootting . If I flip TH on for 3 seconds and flip it back off then power return to St1 is instant. No way to know for sure but it sure seems like the ESC's No Throttle Signal Safety is the issue.

It seems that most Heli ESC's have this Safety and there seems no way to disable it. Perhaps the CF frame shadowed the receiver antenna but seems very unlikely due to the position and proximity to transmitter at the time. I told my wife that the Trex just does not like me. Perhaps I shold stick with Blades as I have never had any such issues with them.
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Old Nov 24, 2012, 02:21 PM
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Could also be a brown out issue. We are just trying to help. Way to many variables for any of us to "know" what is happening. Some speedcontrols and motors don't have the filters a lot of higher quality electronics do. You could always try a cheap capacitor on a open channel.
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...Protector.html
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Old Nov 24, 2012, 02:32 PM
just gotta mess with it!
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Sorry to hear of your crash. It does sound like a loss of signal shutdown to me. Are you using just a single satellite?

I've had no problems with my 450 on which I use an FrSky 8ch RX, which has two antennae, with true signal diversity. I have one antenna running thru holes on each side of the rear skid mount. Since I fly governor mode most of the time, super-soft start is enabled, though if I do, say, a practice auto flipping to hold, the motor fires back up quickly when I flip hold off.

Previously, when I was flying the 450 on 72MHz and using a data logging ESC, I had a lost signal event and in the data log, there was a very clear linear reduction of throttle to zero over a several second period.

With that ESC, even if the signal was restored, you had to pull the throttle all the way down to zero before the ESC would resume. The easiest thing would be to flip the throttle hold switch on and off, otherwise you'd have to go into the normal flight mode and bring the stick down - but it's hard to do those things when you're having a "what the heck!" moment....
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Old Nov 24, 2012, 02:53 PM
Southern Pride
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No satellite just a Spektrum AR 6100 V1.6 which does not support one and a ZYX which does not support one either (requires a full receiver). I should have had my Tattle Tale in it but with numerious prior flights on the heli with a Plain Jane Common Sese ESC and over a half dozen with the AE-45 without any issues of a power nathure I was caught with my pants down so to speak.

Heli is repaired and now I just have to decide what steps to take to prevent such from happening again ,hopefully.

Thanks for all of the suggestions guys and I realize that it most likely will remain one of life's mysteries. I guess I mostly posted as a head's up / inquiry if others had experienced Turnigy AE-45 issues. I am aware that some have reported ESC issues with these but I was running a Castle Creation 10A peak ESC.

Charles
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Old Nov 24, 2012, 04:10 PM
just gotta mess with it!
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As a matter of interest, and to rule out a brown-out as the cause, what voltage do you have the CC BEC set to? The AR6100 has a fairly high minimum voltage.
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Old Nov 24, 2012, 04:29 PM
Southern Pride
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Default setting of 5.1V ,rated 7A cont. output @12V input and 3S LiPoly was being used. 3 HS65 Carbonites on cyclics and HS5084 MG on tail.

Charles
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Old Nov 24, 2012, 04:48 PM
just gotta mess with it!
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I would up the voltage to maybe 5.5v or 6v, just to give it more of a margin.
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Old Nov 24, 2012, 05:12 PM
Southern Pride
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But the HS 5084s have been reported as having a short life at over 5V ,yes I could use a step down to it but fact is that before switching to the AE-45 ESC it was flown around twent flights with zero problems. My son purchased it with the Common Sense ESC on it and purchased the CC ESC which I installed (soldered the connections) for him. My YEP ESC's should be here next week ,in the mean time I will try to find a better location for the receiver to avoid possible CF issues.


Charles
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Old Nov 25, 2012, 02:55 PM
Southern Pride
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Update : Well I started my crash due to ? here

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...ostcount=13591

where I also referenced a crash a week prior . Today to cold and windy for me to fly so spent some bench and yard time checking voltages ,range, etc. Now I am pissed off at myself for not doing a proper range check much sooner. Turns out that receiver which came in the Trex has approx. 1/2 of the recomended range(14 paces). Swaped out receiver with another AR6100 and range is 28 to 32 paces depending on receiver (heli) orientation.


Sorry about taking this thread off topic but another crash post above got me started.
Charles
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Old Nov 25, 2012, 05:54 PM
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Charles— as we all know, crashes are a part of everyday flying. Glad you figured out your Rx problem. Dumb thumbs are bad enough; electro-mechanical failure when you are otherwise flying all right really hurts.
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Old Nov 25, 2012, 06:16 PM
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Really glad you got it sorted out. I know the absolute worst part of this hobby is when things don't go right and you don't know what made them go wrong.
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