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Old Aug 08, 2007, 12:43 AM
Registered User
Melbourne Australia
Joined May 2007
5 Posts
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Spin, Flip, out of control, crash in 4 seconds

Hi There,
Please can someone experienced help me.
About a year ago I decided to get into RC so I managed to buy the best simulator I could get my hands on, at that stage Real flight 3.5 was the talk of the town, and you dont stuff up your real plane so by using a simulator, blah blah blah. I learned to fly the simulator using the program for about 1.5 to 2 hrs minimum a week in mode 2.
After 3 months of practice I then brought a 3 channel Piper cub foamy which I used to hand launch. Well it just flew like a brick and after 20 odd crashes it looked like a large beach ball of glue I binned it. My local hobby shop then talked me into a trainer plane smiler to a Wing Dragon Ready-to-Fly. I have been flying this plane for 4 months now with no airlons and clocked up about 12 hrs flying time but again only hand launching and removing the wheels because the ground is a bit rough to use as a runway. The wing dragon is a great plane but did get quite boring. During this period while flying the 3 channel dragon I got to like the Yak 54 on the flight 3.5 simulator and I flew this plane on the computer whenever I had a free minute and I just loved the airlons and the 3D experience .
Well I then saw the plane of my dreams the YAK 54 Foamy on United Hobbies I brought the plane with 3 other slightly more powerful Lipos, assembled the plane, checking that the rudder, flaps, and airlons were all aligned correctly. I waited another 4 weeks to be totally ready practicing on the 3.5 simulator. Last weekend the wind was very calm and I hand launched the Yak 54 feeling very nervous not to stuff up and low and behold 4 SECONDS LATER my new plane was in three pieces. I know most of you will say that I'm running before I walk but I thought around 60 hrs on flight sim and 12 hrs on a dragon trainer would at least introduce me to 3D flying with a better welcome then I got.
Please any lagitamit suggestions would be most welcome as I do love your hobby, but I just cant seem to get it right in the real world.
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Old Aug 08, 2007, 05:02 AM
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Neil Morse's Avatar
San Francisco, CA, USA
Joined Jul 1999
6,141 Posts
A simulator is a great learning tool, but the transition to real world flying requires a model that's properly set up and balanced. Without more information, it's difficult to figure out the best way to help you. Do you live near a flying site where other people are flying? There is no subsitute for hands-on assistance, specially when it comes to flying a new model for the first time. Is it possible that one of your controls was reversed? Or that you had too much throw on your elevator or ailerons? Or that your CG was off? I'm not familiar with the Yak from United Hobbies, so I don't know how well it flies, but my advice would be, if possible, that you find an experienced flyer to fly your plane first to make sure that everything is working properly. You mention a local hobby shop, and that might be a good place to start looking for some help. Good luck!

Neil
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Old Aug 08, 2007, 07:18 PM
Registered User
Melbourne Australia
Joined May 2007
5 Posts
Thanks a Million Neil for those wise words far far away from where I live.
I did check the controls and they seem ok, no reversing required, but I think my throw on my ailerons ( thanks for showing me how to spell it ) are an issue.
Its cool to show your mates at home how much they throw when demonstrating how the plane works in the house, but when your out on the field trying to to fly the beast and learning, she's going to respond much more aggressively with big movement then you anticipate.
Basically all the horns are set on max throw. Do you think I should set them all to minumim throw, and just do gentle moves and work my way up ?
With regards C.G I need to learn how to check that cause I don't have a clue, apart from balancing the plane on a center line. I also balanced my prop last night I hope that might help.
Thanks again Neil
Regards,
Rod
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Old Aug 08, 2007, 08:09 PM
More Thermals Please
Audax's Avatar
Northwest PA
Joined Nov 2005
124 Posts
Rod,

A properly located CG is one of the most critical setups on a new airplane. Make sure you understand how to locate this before you try flying the Yak again.

If you have a computer radio, setting up your control throws is a lot easier. Set them up mechanically for max throw, and then dial it down with your radio. Also, on a 3D plane it is usually a good idea to have quite a bit of negative expo on at least the elevator and ailerons.

If you can land and take off easily in the simulator, then you should be able to fly your Yak. Just make sure you have it setup correctly.

-Greg
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Old Aug 08, 2007, 10:41 PM
Registered User
Melbourne Australia
Joined May 2007
5 Posts
Thanks Greg,
I will do my homework on CG for the Yak 54 foamy and negative expo, unfortunately I don't have a computer radio yet so I can't dial it down but your comment have given me good food for thought.
Thanks again Greg,
Regards,
Rod
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Old Aug 09, 2007, 03:05 AM
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GlorfindelRW's Avatar
Ohio
Joined Jun 2007
224 Posts
I've flown many real R/C planes and compared them to Real Flight... so far I've never seen one that was all that accurate. The sim is great to practice and get an idea, but it never replaces practicing with the real thing. I think that one of the big factors aside from the inaccuracy of the sims is the stress factor. With a sim you're not worried, but with the real thing in your control, you can easily forget what you're doing and start over controlling.

I'd also suggest that you try some other planes on the sim as I doubt that a small foamy will fly the same as a large, heavy, glow-powered Yak. In my experience it seems like small planes are twitchier and harder to control than large ones.

Although I've flown quite a few aileron planes before, I'm about to try the same thing. I've ordered my first 3d plane recently and plan on trying it out. (R3D) Its now been a few years since I flew my glow planes... the best practice I've gotten in aside from sims is flying an e-starter with dual rates on. I'm hoping for a better outcome! 0_0

Good luck!
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Old Aug 09, 2007, 09:32 AM
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Neil Morse's Avatar
San Francisco, CA, USA
Joined Jul 1999
6,141 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sekuru
Its cool to show your mates at home how much they throw when demonstrating how the plane works in the house, but when your out on the field trying to to fly the beast and learning, she's going to respond much more aggressively with big movement then you anticipate.
You are absolutely correct! Since you don't have a computer radio, you need to adjust the throws mechanically to reduce them significantly. First learn to fly the plane with very low control throws; then you can increase them as you gain experience and confidence. As others have said, the CG is absolutely critical. Didn't the plane come with instructions explaining where the balance point should be? If not, you really need to find someone to help you. There must be other RC flyers in a place as large as Melbourne. Keep us posted. I'm sure you will work it out and start having success once you get some assistance.

Neil
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Old Aug 09, 2007, 01:43 PM
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TXTATE's Avatar
San Antonio TX
Joined Aug 2006
363 Posts
Neil is right - there is nothing more important than seting the correct CG. A plane too nose heavy will fly badly - a plane too tail heavy will fly only once. When you fly something on a simulator, you are flying a plane that has been set up correctly and is balanced. In real life, the maiden flight of a plane is unknown. Balance, trim, and control throws all have a tremendous effect on flight. Since you are realitivley new to acrobatic flying, it's really difficult for your to realize what's wrong and correct it before you crash. Most hobby shops will help you preflight a plane that you bought from them and ensure it is set up properly for your skill level. Since you have a sim, it's not a bad idea to learn how to trim your plane in flight. Have a friend mess up the trim (rudder/elevator/aileron) on the sim plane and then give it to you without you knowing what is wrong. Take off and then see if you can get the plane to fly straight and level without crashing while you're trimming it. This is excellent practice for real life as this is something you will need to be able to do with every plane that you will own. Let us know how it goes and good luck.

TXTATE
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Old Aug 16, 2007, 02:13 AM
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Melbourne Australia
Joined May 2007
5 Posts
Hi there my fellow experienced pilots,
Thanks for all your great replies, and the time you have taken helping me out.
Last weekend I took my repaired Yak to out local Lilydale R.C Flying club. I had one of their best blokes have a look at my plane and he said the COG is fine( whoo hoo ) Previously at my first and last crash I had bent the shaft on the motor so I had straitened the shaft, but I must of put the flipping prop back back to front which was a bit embarrassing as I was trying to impress all these members with my Foamy Yak .
I hope I didn't have the prop on backwards when I did my first flight ? who knows.

He then said his very experienced son will take the plane for a spin and set the Yak up for me. But unfortunately the heavens opened up with pouring rain and after 20 min everyone had gone home leaving a very wet landing strip.
Well I will give it another go this weekend pending the weather. I would of loved to see my plane fly in the air, but maybe next weekend.
I have however set my settings to very minimal throw, on the actual plane, especially the ailerons and elevators but I have left the rudder the same. Unfortunately I don't have a computer radio that dial in and set the throw digitally.
I will keep you guys posted on how I go.
Thanks again all of you for your valued input.
Regards,
Rod
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Old Aug 16, 2007, 08:20 AM
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BoneDoc's Avatar
San Antonio, TX
Joined Sep 2004
15,632 Posts
How much throw do you have? If COG is correct, then big throws is your enemy
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Old Aug 16, 2007, 02:29 PM
Where's my herd at?
singletracker's Avatar
Land of Sheeple
Joined May 2007
73 Posts
I used RealFlight G3 to train myself. I've found that if I can fly the plane on RealFlight, I can fly it in real life. I jumped right into a 3D plane after only 3 flights on my Slow Stick. I've never looked back. Keep plugging away on the sim until everything is second nature.

Aside from getting your plane set up properly (very important!), don't be afraid to get your plane waaaaay up in the air. It seems scary, but it's a lot safer for you and your plane. The increased distance allows you make corrections in the air without sacrificing your new planes.

Stick with it! It's worth it in the end.
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Old Oct 09, 2007, 12:54 AM
Registered User
Melbourne Australia
Joined May 2007
5 Posts
Well I'll give it another crack

Hi every one,
Well I'll give it another go at this hobby.
I got another umphed brushed motor for the Wing Dragon
( Extra Fun ) Ready-to-Fly plane and I'll just go back to the 3 channel experience, and forget the 3D for a while.
The trouble is that I burned out the new speed controller that the hobby shop gave me with the new brushed motor.
I got the beefed up speed controller back and now the new motor is actually smoking its getting so hot and thats just testing the plane on the ground, so I'm having a bit of for luck at the moment .
I will keep you all informed how things develop
C Ya soon
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