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Old Aug 02, 2008, 08:27 AM
Let slip the dogs of war!
Park_Flyer's Avatar
United States, VA, Virginia Beach
Joined Jun 2005
1,675 Posts
This thing can handle wind too!

A little windy this morning — 5-10 mph gusting to 15-20. This plane still handled it with very little problem. It just danced around a bit. I was able to perform a vertical landing, which was very cool.

Ben
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Old Aug 03, 2008, 07:50 AM
Electric Advocate
New Yorker's Avatar
big Apple
Joined May 2008
74 Posts
Thust Vectoring will enhance your performance

Quote:
Originally Posted by tomhe
Here's a video of my Raptor using only tailerons as control surfaces. It's still very maneuverable.
Nice plane. But it's not Thrust Vectoring. You'll see some sudden axis rotating and cobra hanging in the air and other types of dances in the air when you have a TV mechanism.
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Old Aug 03, 2008, 07:54 AM
Fly it like you stole it..
Tram's Avatar
Florence, Al
Joined Oct 2000
29,212 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by New Yorker
But it's not Thrust Vectoring.
He said simple thrust vectoring.....
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Old Aug 03, 2008, 09:55 AM
Let slip the dogs of war!
Park_Flyer's Avatar
United States, VA, Virginia Beach
Joined Jun 2005
1,675 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by New Yorker
But it's not Thrust Vectoring.
Yes, it is. The simple definition from Merriam-Webster does not describe the mechanics of thrust vectoring or the amount of thrust that must be vectored. It is simply changing the direction of thrust, which tomhe's design does - simply.

Did you watch the video?

vectoring
Main Entry:
vector
Function:
transitive verb
Inflected Form(s):
vec·tored; vec·tor·ing Listen to the pronunciation of vectoring \-t(ə-)riŋ\
Date: 1941

1 : to guide (as an airplane, its pilot, or a missile) in flight by means of a radioed vector
2 : to change the direction of (the thrust of a jet engine) for steering

Ben
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Old Aug 03, 2008, 10:51 AM
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tomhe's Avatar
Linköping, Sweden
Joined Jan 2007
259 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by New Yorker
Nice plane. But it's not Thrust Vectoring.
No?

Wikipedia has the following definition of thrust vectoring:
Quote:
Thrust vectoring is the ability of an aircraft or other vehicle to direct the thrust from its main engine(s) in a direction other than parallel to the vehicle's longitudinal axis.

Most currently operational vectored thrust aircraft use turbofans with rotating nozzles or vanes to deflect the exhaust stream.
Take special note of the first paragraph.

I don't believe that there are many aircraft that actually change the direction of the motor. Anyway, this has been discussed over and over again and again, for instance in this thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by New Yorker
You'll see some sudden axis rotating and cobra hanging in the air and other types of dances in the air when you have a TV mechanism.
That's exactly the type of flying you can do with these kinds of planes.
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Old Aug 03, 2008, 11:09 AM
Fly it like you stole it..
Tram's Avatar
Florence, Al
Joined Oct 2000
29,212 Posts
How did I know that post would be responded to like this! LOL
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Old Aug 04, 2008, 12:03 AM
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C. George's Avatar
Anchorage AK
Joined Jun 2008
74 Posts
Generating a Buzz

Took my f-22 out to the park again today to demo for a co-worker. By the time I left the park I had 3 honest to god fighter pilots critiquing the flight capability and they all agreed this plane "flies like the real thing". I am pretty sure there will be another one or two in the air soon as a result of our interation and the planes fantastic performance.

Another thumbs up to Tomhe!
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Old Aug 04, 2008, 01:11 AM
hobby-asia.com
uniquexme's Avatar
Malaysia
Joined Apr 2006
466 Posts
flew up very high, full throttle diving nose down, max elevator, plane ripped apart, from the right side of the air intake torn till the motor mount, then the area after the prop till the elevator. was rather surprised to see it actually can get torn when u make sudden elevator input at very fast speed. luckily it managed to land very very far, sit nicely just beside a drain. muhaha....... actually before this, i experienced once as well, similar to this, diving very fast down, the pull up, similar damage, but on the left side. well, my frenz told me that i actually hit a bird down, but i can't really see that. so i think i didn't kill a bird after all.
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Old Aug 04, 2008, 02:09 AM
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slumberjer's Avatar
Changloon, Kedah, Malaysia
Joined Dec 2006
123 Posts
uniquexme try coroplast as your building material..my cororaptor is super tough..can handle nose down high speed crash with no problem..pick it up clean the nose a bit...and fly again like nothing happen..
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Old Aug 04, 2008, 02:33 AM
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tomhe's Avatar
Linköping, Sweden
Joined Jan 2007
259 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by uniquexme
flew up very high, full throttle diving nose down, max elevator, plane ripped apart, from the right side of the air intake torn till the motor mount
Ouch, didn't know you could do that.
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Old Aug 04, 2008, 03:35 AM
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uniquexme's Avatar
Malaysia
Joined Apr 2006
466 Posts
haha. i tried these with all steve's jets, and they work fine, just that they weigh more.
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Old Aug 04, 2008, 10:42 AM
Electric Advocate
New Yorker's Avatar
big Apple
Joined May 2008
74 Posts
I'm here to share the excitement of Thrust Vectoring. I'm trying to make friends here.

Being that said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomhe
Wikipedia has the following definition of thrust vectoring:
Def is not important. Real fighter airplanes do deflect air flow with the nozzles. It's a matter how the theory was realistically applied. Do you think all, every single one pull-proppeller airplanes called TV? Their thrust air flow was deflected by ailerons and elevators.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tomhe
I don't believe that there are many aircraft that actually change the direction of the motor.
Bingo. Only the few had the thrill.

Again, I am just trying to share the excitement of the TV. May I recommend u-tube and search for Thrust Vectoring and watch the real rusian pros flying MiG-29s and USAF airmen showing off their stunts with F-22's.
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Old Aug 04, 2008, 10:55 AM
Let slip the dogs of war!
Park_Flyer's Avatar
United States, VA, Virginia Beach
Joined Jun 2005
1,675 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by New Yorker
I'm trying to make friends here.
By provoking arguments - really?
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Old Aug 04, 2008, 11:49 AM
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Flugtechnik's Avatar
Roswell, Ga
Joined Oct 2007
63 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by New Yorker
Def is not important. Real fighter airplanes do deflect air flow with the nozzles. It's a matter how the theory was realistically applied. Do you think all, every single one pull-proppeller airplanes called TV? Their thrust air flow was deflected by ailerons and elevators.
Def is important. This is not a real fighter airplane. It is a scale model. It doesn't have jets and therefore cannot have nozzles. But it can have thrust vectoring vanes behind the propeller much like an air boat. In Tomhe's case, he has one vane, which happens to be an extension of the elevon. Since it is located directly behind the propeller and deflects a majority of the air that moves through the propeller, I would define it as a thrust vectoring vane. It acheives the same effect as a jet engine with thrust vectoring nozzles. On typical prop aircraft, the control surfaces deflect only a small percentage of the air that has passed through the propeller.

However this is only my opinion and you are entitled to believe what you wish. How much of the air has to be deflected to be called Thrust vectoring? Who knows. It is a matter of symantics. I've seen the videos of what this plane can do and I would call that thrust vectoring. But that is just the opinion of an aerospace engineer that worked for 3 years on the F22 and 3 on the JSF.
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Old Aug 04, 2008, 11:51 AM
Fly it like you stole it..
Tram's Avatar
Florence, Al
Joined Oct 2000
29,212 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by New Yorker
I'm here to share the excitement of Thrust Vectoring. I'm trying to make friends here.
While I am sure you meant well, but....

Thrust vectoring is done, as many have shown, in more ways than just through nozzles.. This plane does indeed vector the thrust or perhaps at least diverts it.. It uses a control surface rather than nozzles, much like an airboat vectors thrust..

As far as making friends, tomhe has taken the time to provide us with plans, many have enjoyed the plans and your comments at best have been taken as an attack on his design and time spent..

"Hey, that's great.. but it's not what you say it is.." is what I feel many here heard..

Imagine if you showed up at your local flying field as a new member and a prominent member there had designed this plane.. Many fellow members are flying the plane and enjoy it immensely, you being the new guy "rain on the parade" with "OHh, that's nice.. but it's not thrust vectoring.." How would you imagine you'd be received?

The "brotherhood" here on RCGroups.com is pretty tight in most places.. We all "bump into" each other all over the boards here, form very real friendships, have our arguments, etc but are like one universal flying club.. When a new member shows up and start making waves, they are usually responded to in a swift manner..

Now, I'm sure you didn't mean to cause waves, but you did.. However, I wouldn't sweat it..

Jeff
www.CommonSenseRC.com
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