Originally Posted by Glider-man

Hahaha, thanks Pat! Well I flew it today... started with a glide test, it floated perfectly to a soft plop with no need for trim. So half throttle and a biff sent it above the trees and into a very steady and beautiful flight. It's not really that fast looking in the air probaly because it is reasonably big but also because there must be quite a bit of drag in that belly however it is exactly what I intended and it is very fun the fly around on half throttle with the occasional WOT fly-by.
I did however manage to get it locked into a spiral then it disappered behind a hill! But no damage was caused however I will be changing the way I mounted my servos - they find it easier to push themselves instead of the surface.
I think I'll be getting the RC timer motor because the 2210 doesn't give it unlimited vertical in when in the air. It has just enough to hover the plane (not enough for me )

A good plane though.
Thanks Tomhe.

I'm glad the model flew well for you, sorry to hear about the mishap but glad it's still in one piece. More power - argh argh argggh...

GM:
In a old thread by CHARA of his Harpy design,
he just hooked the ailerons TO the Elevons and it worked !

I was skeptical at first as I would have expected them to work OPPOSITELY
But hooked up to work going the SAME DIRECTION they work just fine.

I have a Mig 29 et al that word well hooked up that way.

So you "could" be saving the extra servo weight. 2 vs 4 servos.

Just a thought for future experiment.

Originally Posted by birdofplay

GM:
In a old thread by CHARA of his Harpy design,
he just hooked the ailerons TO the Elevons and it worked !

I was skeptical at first as I would have expected them to work OPPOSITELY
But hooked up to work going the SAME DIRECTION they work just fine.

I have a Mig 29 et al that word well hooked up that way.

So you "could" be saving the extra servo weight. 2 vs 4 servos.

Just a thought for future experiment.

I agree birdofplay, unless you actually want the function of FLAP/SPOILER then ganging the ailerons to the tailerons is more than adequate. Taileron only rolls seem pretty tame when compared to drill bit rolls when they are ganged to the ailerons.

I use a larger horn on the aileron because you don't want it to move as much as the taileron. I use the low profile horns on the tailerons that sweep forward with the linkage point over the hinge-line. You need to make sure full down deflection of the aileron won't hit the linkage going to the taileron. You wouldn't want any more deflection than that anyway.

Originally Posted by birdofplay

GM:
In a old thread by CHARA of his Harpy design,
he just hooked the ailerons TO the Elevons and it worked !

I was skeptical at first as I would have expected them to work OPPOSITELY
But hooked up to work going the SAME DIRECTION they work just fine.

I have a Mig 29 et al that word well hooked up that way.

So you "could" be saving the extra servo weight. 2 vs 4 servos.

Just a thought for future experiment.

A question Birdofplay,

On a taileron only plane to roll left you would want the left taileron to go UP and the right to go DOWN.

For an aileron only plane to roll left you would want the left aileron to go UP and the right aileron to go DOWN.

Both operate in the same sense, I'm interested why you would think they would work oppositely? Not having a go at you or anything, just want to make sure my thinking is sound.

OK thats a fair question, nrg2go !

Back in the OLD DAYS - remember Black and White TV ?

I used to fly U-Control or Control line planes around in a big circle.

Back then we would hookup the Flaps to be Opposite of the Elevator.

The thinking being ...
Flaps increase Lift when Lowered and Elevator increases Angle of attack
so a loop could be do REAL TIGHT.

FAST FORWARD a few years - forget color tv ====> Flatscreen HD et al :-)

So Now when the ailerons(flaps in this case) are hooked up THE SAME DIRECTION
as the Elevators - well ... it was going against the u-Control thinking.

OK it was only somewhat contrary for Elevator use NOT Aileron use.

Still I have to wonder if these Prop in slot ,Vectored thurst jets "Might" not benefit from
Separate FLAPS and Ailerons with Ailerons going the same as Elevators and FLAPS gong the opposite.
Those Cobras Might just become SEVERE , stop in the mid flight wonders ~!

I hope that explains my initial perplexity over Chara's hook up.
Seems like everyone is doing it that way these days, with great success.

REGARDLESS - my Mig-29 rolls so fast I just have to STOP and see what happened !
THEN make corrections if necessary - Hole E SMOKES !!!

My F-22 is a bit less fast but still pretty darn quick !

C U L8r

Bob

Originally Posted by birdofplay

OK thats a fair question, nrg2go !

Back in the OLD DAYS - remember Black and White TV ?

I used to fly U-Control or Control line planes around in a big circle.

Back then we would hookup the Flaps to be Opposite of the Elevator.

The thinking being ...
Flaps increase Lift when Lowered and Elevator increases Angle of attack
so a loop could be do REAL TIGHT.

FAST FORWARD a few years - forget color tv ====> Flatscreen HD et al :-)

So Now when the ailerons(flaps in this case) are hooked up THE SAME DIRECTION
as the Elevators - well ... it was going against the u-Control thinking.

OK it was only somewhat contrary for Elevator use NOT Aileron use.

Still I have to wonder if these Prop in slot ,Vectored thurst jets "Might" not benefit from
Separate FLAPS and Ailerons with Ailerons going the same as Elevators and FLAPS gong the opposite.
Those Cobras Might just become SEVERE , stop in the mid flight wonders ~!

I hope that explains my initial perplexity over Chara's hook up.
Seems like everyone is doing it that way these days, with great success.

REGARDLESS - my Mig-29 rolls so fast I just have to STOP and see what happened !
THEN make corrections if necessary - Hole E SMOKES !!!

My F-22 is a bit less fast but still pretty darn quick !

C U L8r

Bob

I guess I was focusing on roll and wasn't considering the pitch effects. Your right, downward going ailerons tend to assist in upward pitch. Thanks

Just a thought...please correct me if my assumptions are wrong! In a plane like this, where the trailing edges of the main wings are pretty far aft of the cg... wouldn't downward going ailerons actually force the nose down -- just like elevator? All of my f-22 builds have linked ailerons/tailerons -- I thought this was one of the reasons why it is so great at high alpha (spoilerons). I also assume that on a full size jet, that the cg is much further back which is why they use flaps going down. (?).

I just came from the field, it was quite windy, too windy even for a .40 size to fly properly. The F22 just danced through it. Sure it's being tossed around but i guess that is jet fighter handling, I like it.
I hacked off about half an inch on each wing, now I got better roll. Also about the same off the wing's trailing edge.
Using only 2s 1000mah 30c's, I don't have unlimited vertical but plenty enough power for scale like F-22 moves. My favorite is to fly low then pull straight up, do a backflip & just float in aim down/shoot down position. My instant favorite, it's even the most efficient plane I have flying at the moment. Very happy.

I finally got to fly mine a few times last week and I noticed at high alpha the plane would want to circle to the right, even with full 'up' and full 'left. Is that normal or should I add some shims under one side of the motor mount? Right now the motor is facing perfectly straight and level. Thanks,

Don

SNice, not sure about all the dynamics of it, but even without the ailerons linked in with the tailerons, it has nice high alpha. I think the greatest benefit of having them tied in is increased roll rate.


Don, it does that on all of my F-22s, even the little ones. So it is normal.

Pat

Thanks, Pat.

Don, it does that on all of my F-22s, even the little ones. So it is normal.

Pat[/QUOTE]

Don,

that same thing happens on all my Hi AOA planes.
Harpy, F22, Mig-29, ...

Play with it and make it Work for you :-)
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I've done a 133% version for a guy and now he wants 3 more !
I used 9mm depron throughout.
Hey, Some Like 'em Big !!!

I used 9mm Dep for the center 'spine' of the fuselage on my 100%; had to make the tab holes a little wider but I think it stiffened it up a bit and makes it a little easier to launch.

What power does he use on the 133% planes?

Don

Hi all,
New to all this and am building my first plane... F-22, the bigger one. Just comming to grips with the concept of rolling and turning if the 22 doesnt have a rudder? At present just building with tailerons and may add ailerons later. Can someone explane to me the concept of turning as opposed to rolling.

Much appreciated

Mick,

It works pretty much the same as any elevator/aileron plane. To make a turn you simply use coordinated elevator with aileron by pulling back slightly to keep the nose up.

However, this is a fun plane to simply "yank and bank". A lot of times I'll roll completely inverted, then pull back to bring the plane back towards me.

Pat