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Old Sep 30, 2007, 06:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tracon
I haven't spun mine yet....

If I did, I'll do it about 8 mistakes high...

This is a scale plane and it should be flown as scale as possible....

Good Luck...

Sam
First time I flew the real thing (never flown a poer craft before), my chum (Civil Airline pilot instructor) had me stall and spin - it was so stable I had to really provoke it and then hold full back + full controls deflection to hold it in for a couple of rotations - release the abuse and quick self recovery - only took a few hundred feet to recover when released (werent that high to start with..!) - reminds me of the day when one of my gliding instructors insisted on taking control on base leg and causing an incipient -- NICE....!! -- NOT!! - 400' high - my recovery c 120'... - He was however right that spinning at altitude is not usually the one that gives you the headache - its spinning in from a Finals low speed too low, most likely flat ruddered turn... - SCARY!!

So I guess spinning the model, whilst potentially expensive is less likely to give the same sort of headache --- unless of course it lands on your nut! - I flew an electric Easypigeon into the deck vertically 20 ft from me (so it can happen..) - went in 6" into my front lawn - yes wings didnt take kindly - fuse survived, depite large nicad pack coming adrift with the odd 30G and shooting through the new Esc into the motor..!
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Old Sep 30, 2007, 06:38 AM
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how slow can:
a) approach be made with full flap, preserving a safe airspeed
b) it be landed with full flap - do you perform held off landings?

what is stall speed with and without flaps?
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Old Sep 30, 2007, 07:48 AM
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I'm about 2 1/2 to 3 hours away plus a 40 minute ferry ride...

So intatal about 4 hours easy driving time...

Sam
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Old Sep 30, 2007, 06:44 PM
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Stall speed without flap is about 13 m/s. With flap I don't know, but I suspect it's only half that. The landing roll on one notch is amazingly short... about 5m. Haven't done a full flap landing yet... I suspect I'd have been flying backwards, it was rather windy last time I flew the Cessna.

The flaps on this model are really, really effective. It slows down a LOT.
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Old Sep 30, 2007, 07:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew McGregor
Stall speed without flap is about 13 m/s. With flap I don't know, but I suspect it's only half that. The landing roll on one notch is amazingly short... about 5m. Haven't done a full flap landing yet... I suspect I'd have been flying backwards, it was rather windy last time I flew the Cessna.

The flaps on this model are really, really effective. It slows down a LOT.
stall speed of 30 mph seems high - i guess it is that high wing loading, its a heavy craft.

could it do stable fly bys at c 10 m/s with some flap - does stability increase or decrease with part flap assuming flying speed is comfortably just above stall in both configurations
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Old Sep 30, 2007, 09:33 PM
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I don't have enough time on it yet to really know, but it's an acceptably stable plane clean or on about 1/3 flap, and it flies pretty slowly with the flaps down. The impression watching it fly is that it's reasonably quick clean, slow on 1/3 flap and really slow on full flap.
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Old Oct 01, 2007, 04:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew McGregor
I don't have enough time on it yet to really know, but it's an acceptably stable plane clean or on about 1/3 flap, and it flies pretty slowly with the flaps down. The impression watching it fly is that it's reasonably quick clean, slow on 1/3 flap and really slow on full flap.
Thanks, sounds very good. - Whilst I am happy for mine to climb quicker than scale, I would not want cruise to look ridiculously fast - perhaps I could use c. 15% flap on lower throttle setting for long scale fly-bys and even general flying?

Slow stable landings are very important for a near scale model of the 182 - float it in and full held off landing are far more satisfying than plonking it on the deck at high speed.

I just cant wait to build it - still not decided on my second model to get enough flying skills to safely fly my dream CMP 182 - Been investigating 1/2 a dozen Cubs of various sizes and 1/2 a dozen c 3ft Cessna. - All rudder and elevator, a few are full function - larger Cub is tempting - fell for some convincing smaller Cessna, however that mat spoil the 'real thing' even though it has obvoius advantage of Trike practice. - Big Cub with flaps / flaperons? would be nice.

I am assuming that flaperons simply dial both ailerons down and then add or subtract aileron stick inputs?

Assuming EDIT! flaps not as I put (ailerons!) are to have an auto slowed action for stability (not to mention a primary mix of down elevator to prevent ballooning) - what sort of radio can handle this type of mixing and slowing - ie same servos operating ailerons must operate at different speeds from different TX command functions and take simmultaneous mix - ie whilst flaperons are lowering - aileron function can still mix in at normal speed..

Assume I shall convert to new 2.4Ghz for this model at the end of the year (ie incl. any new releases you know of) - a few extra functions including rotary knob inputs for camera might be useful, although perhaps a buddy link for secondary functions eg camera pan / tilt and zoom would be good - shame a spare stick couldnt be used as on real thing - would presumably require secondary receiver and transmitters remain independant ....weight.. maybe keep it simpler on this size and save the full gizmo suite for a larger version later - the ESM 96" would be interesting...

Ok, time to stop rambling.... - Do feel free to contribute with any ideas
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Old Oct 01, 2007, 06:52 PM
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Ok, let's see...

It is fairly fast clean, but if you cruise rather than doing a full-throttle low pass, it looks fairly scale. Actually, if you do a full-throttle low pass, it looks like a full-size 182 doing the same, it's just that that's something you essentially never see.

For an intermediate plane, you need something with ailerons. Don't worry about the flaperons, they're a whole big can of worms. The trouble with flaperons is that they encourage nasty stall behaviours, and also tend to have very little aileron authority at slow speed... which compounds the nasty stall behaviour.

The only TX I know of that can do that kind of slowed-down mixing is the Futaba 14MZ, and perhaps the 12Z as well. Way, way way out of anyone reasonable's budget. It can be done on-board with a servo-slow and a v-tail mixer, but, like I said, the aerodynamics of flaperons is not friendly.

For your new TX, my pick would be either a DX7 or a JR X9303. I'm using a DX7, and it's been excellent. No slowdowns, but enough mixes to deal with almost anything that is possible with 7 channels.

As for your intermediate plane, you want a slow-ish, tricycle aileron plane. Don't worry about flaps or flaperons, if it's light enough you won't need them. The trouble with Cubs is that they're taildraggers... but if you want scale, a good 4-channel Cub is probably the best choice. You really, really need those ailerons... the CMP Cessna isn't that hard to fly, but it really demands you know how to fly coordinated turns at varying airspeeds, so it's not a good choice as a first aileron plane.

Hmm... another possibility for a plane that will show you how to do coordinated turns is a scale glider. My little 'Chinese Fox' (search for that on here) is the model that really underlined coordination for me, and my big DG1000 also totally requires coordination... it won't turn at all without both rudder and aileron, you put one control in on its own and it just sits there looking uncomfortable and wallowing around. Set either up for electric launch and you'll have a lot of fun. Don't go expecting to slope a scalie first time though... you need an EPP trainer first to go do that, slope landings are a whole different skill in their own right.
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Old Oct 04, 2007, 05:07 PM
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Thanks for full reply, I will comment though your text:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew McGregor
Ok, let's see...

It is fairly fast clean, but if you cruise rather than doing a full-throttle low pass, it looks fairly scale. Actually, if you do a full-throttle low pass, it looks like a full-size 182 doing the same, it's just that that's something you essentially never see. - OK, fine

For an intermediate plane, you need something with ailerons. Don't worry about the flaperons, they're a whole big can of worms. The trouble with flaperons is that they encourage nasty stall behaviours, and also tend to have very little aileron authority at slow speed... which compounds the nasty stall behaviour. - Understood, flaperons abandoned!

The only TX I know of that can do that kind of slowed-down mixing is the Futaba 14MZ, and perhaps the 12Z as well. Way, way way out of anyone reasonable's budget. It can be done on-board with a servo-slow and a v-tail mixer, but, like I said, the aerodynamics of flaperons is not friendly.

For your new TX, my pick would be either a DX7 or a JR X9303. I'm using a DX7, and it's been excellent. No slowdowns, but enough mixes to deal with almost anything that is possible with 7 channels. - Hmm, keeping cost down is crucial - please explain on-board servo slow-downs for flap application

As for your intermediate plane, you want a slow-ish, tricycle aileron plane. Don't worry about flaps or flaperons, if it's light enough you won't need them. The trouble with Cubs is that they're taildraggers... but if you want scale, a good 4-channel Cub is probably the best choice. You really, really need those ailerons... the CMP Cessna isn't that hard to fly, but it really demands you know how to fly coordinated turns at varying airspeeds, so it's not a good choice as a first aileron plane. - Comments understood - you will probably think i am a bit off the wall, - how about me mixing in some rudder and elevator with aileron application (and elevator with flap) to help preserve the model during training - I am even thinking of an ACT aileron gyro - comments?!

Hmm... another possibility for a plane that will show you how to do coordinated turns is a scale glider. - I love scale gliders, had my eye on the CMpro Discus until i read all the horror stories re weakness and wing droop.. - eventually I do want a DG or similar with poss retracting elec motor / edf! - My little 'Chinese Fox' (search for that on here) is the model that really underlined coordination for me, and my big DG1000 also totally requires coordination... it won't turn at all without both rudder and aileron, you put one control in on its own and it just sits there looking uncomfortable and wallowing around. Set either up for electric launch and you'll have a lot of fun. Don't go expecting to slope a scalie first time though... you need an EPP trainer first to go do that, slope landings are a whole different skill in their own right.
I have searched everywhere for a trike cessna with aileron as a second plane intermediate trainer, that hasnt been slammed and there appear to be very few - one possibility is the new 3 ft Kyosho - any other ideas? - As you say the large Pup is a tempting cal flyer, even the intermediate size sportcub gets great reviews, but no aileron + taildragger..
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Old Oct 05, 2007, 02:30 AM
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The Hyperion Cessna is nice, but like all the 10 size Hyperions, it's a pocket rocket... very, very fast. The Dynam Cessna is quite nice... brushless, ailerons. No idea where you'd get one, they're based in Australia (made in China, but to an Aussie design).

Multiplex Magister? Not strictly scale, but very Cessna-ish. Foamie, big, flies nicely, hard to break and easy to fix.
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Old Oct 05, 2007, 05:01 AM
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Tarcon, how do you change the battery. I just purchased one today. Had the big one with a Zenoah 20 in her. Was fantastic. Sold it though.
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Old Oct 05, 2007, 05:04 AM
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I couldn't figure a way to make a hatch without it looking really ugly, so I just take the wing off.
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Old Oct 05, 2007, 07:33 AM
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Thanks andrew. I probably will do the same. I will run a Hyperion 4020/10 with 5s lipo. Should boogy
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Old Oct 05, 2007, 10:13 AM
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I take the wing off...

This is how I made my battery bay:


My thunder Power 6s 5000 fits in there great !!!

Sam
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Old Oct 06, 2007, 07:27 AM
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Thanks for that. I did a test tonight. The Hyperion 4020/10 pulls 918w @ 52A on a 5s 4200 and Apc 12.6
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