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Old Jul 30, 2007, 02:54 AM
a.k.a Maltone
Australia, NSW, Goulburn
Joined Jan 2005
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Build Log
Peter Rake AVRO Scout racer

The term 'Racer' for this aeroplane is my own - I really have no idea if it raced or not, but the one actual photo I have (photo of a photo actually) seems to indicate a pre-war fun-and-games sort of machine. I'm sure others more enlightened will speak up here

The aircraft is probably plain doped linen all over and appears to have a metal front end - probably polished aluminium. The word AVRO may be black. Anyone with different ideas - let's know!

This design of Peter's is a 36" span, rather sporty swept-wing biplane. Of fairly simple construction, only the cowl should present any difficulty in building.

While the plans show where ailerons would be, their actual implementation would be up to the individual builder - the ribs all have servo lead holes but would need to be cut for the control surfaces. The kit parts from Manzano include ply servo hatches and horns for ailerons and study of other Rake designs should make conversion easy if desired. I will stick to elevator/rudder only for a change (saves a couple of servos too).

The cowl is shown on the plan as being glass-fibre over blue foam. I'll see how I go with this. The cowl covers most of the rotary engine so a dummy motor should be unneccessary.

The kit of parts from Charlie and Vicki at Manzano is of the usual high quality we have come to expect and has parts in liteply, normal ply, bass and various thicknesses of balsa incuding a mass of 1/4" sheet parts for the cowl cheeks.

Pat
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Old Jul 30, 2007, 03:28 AM
Light and floaty does it
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Oo, I like that. I didn't know there were any Avro types of that era that I hadn't seen before!
Probably highly inappropriate for the era, but with that layout it could be made extremely aerobatic - it should flick like a Jungmeister and will probably knife-edge as well as one, too, given the interplane strut fairings.

One more for the 'some day' pile, I think!
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Old Jul 30, 2007, 03:28 AM
a.k.a Maltone
Australia, NSW, Goulburn
Joined Jan 2005
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Peter - I dont have the cut file for this model, but the centre section struts didn't make it to the 1/8 basswood sheet. (If they were meant to). The interplane struts and CS brace parts are there OK.

Pat
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Old Jul 30, 2007, 04:42 AM
a.k.a Maltone
Australia, NSW, Goulburn
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Peter - On the 1/32 ply parts sheet, only two wheel sides have been cut. I assume there should have been four? Also I cant find your usual wheel cross-section on the plan (my eyesight?)

Pat
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Old Jul 30, 2007, 07:37 AM
a.k.a Maltone
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I omitted to point out that this is a prototype build - hence the 'critical' nature of my comments so far
Peter doesn't seem to mind sharing the trials and tribulations of the design process with us all! Given the rate he produces, it's surprising the errors and omissions are so rare.

Pat (E and OE)
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Old Jul 30, 2007, 12:56 PM
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Norfolk, England
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Pat,
Definitely not your eyes mate, there is no wheel section on the plan. This design is, in my terms, quite an old one - one of the first few CAD drawn designs. As such the practice of including wheel parts as part of a laser cut kit had not develped. In fact, it wasn't originally drawn with laser cutting in mind. Therefore, I'm surprised you got any wheel parts at all, they aren't on the cut file.

The c/s strut parts aren't on the file either, being intended as just strip bass. I'll update the files as the build progresses to include wheel section and parts, but may leave the c/s struts as they are. We'll see how I feel at the time.

As you mentioned, this kit is a bit of a hybrid in that although primarily intended for R/E/T, pretty much all the additional parts needed for an aileron version are included in the parts file (the standard ribs being cut to suit). Actually showing aileron construction and including these parts was the first upgrade since the plan was drawn. Obviously others are required if it is to be in line with current designs. However, that will also mean removing many tail surface parts from the file, experience having shown that they are usually too soft.

On the subject of the cowl, you may just find that a 3 litre Coke (or beer) bottle will be usable for that. The cut away section at the bottom means it doesn't need to be the exact diameter, just the right shape and close to correct diameter - I discovered that one whilst looking for a cowl for a bigger version of the SE2A. I spotted Coke, cider and beer bottles that all looked suitable. In fact, I'm in the process of emptying a Coke bottle, prior to starting the scaling process.

Pete
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Old Jul 30, 2007, 05:15 PM
a.k.a Maltone
Australia, NSW, Goulburn
Joined Jan 2005
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Does polyester resin attack white foam?

Question - does polyester resin melt white packing-case type foam? Epoxy doesn't seem to but thought I'd ask.

Peter - OK - I thought since the interplane struts were 1/8 basswood, Charlie had to provide that so the other struts were possible. The wheels - two 1/32 ply discs of the right diam. and two slightly smaller balsa ones are there .

I'll have a look in the local stores for 3L drink bottle - would be a lot easier than working with F/G although I have some ideas.

Pat (not looking forward to drinking 3 litres of Coke)
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Old Jul 30, 2007, 05:53 PM
Light and floaty does it
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Yes it does.
Use water-based polyurethane, or epoxy.
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Old Jul 30, 2007, 11:29 PM
a.k.a Maltone
Australia, NSW, Goulburn
Joined Jan 2005
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Lower wings

A small start has been made on the Avro and as expected is standard Peter Rake construction.

The plans call for 3/8 X 1/8 bass spars but I substituted 3mm spruce. Because the ribs are at an angle to the spar, it may be neccessary to ease the slots to fit properly.

The spar tip was tapered and rebated to fit over the 1/8 balsa wingtip part and glued with white PVA. The laser-cut, notched trailing edge was pinned over the plan and all the ribs glued in place. The white areas around the glue joints is the result of using PVA before the workshop had warmed up

When dry, the rib fronts were sanded to an angle matching the 1/4 X 1/8 balsa leading edge strip which was then glued in place.

As this was the lower wing, the two inboard ribs were sheeted with 1/16 balsa.

Check that the special ribs for the lower wing root area are used at that point - they are 1/16" narrower to allow for sheeting. Also, all the ribs with holes cut in them are used in the lower wings.

If ailerons were being fitted, I would look up another Rake design in this forum and copy the method. Cutting the ailerons out of the wing at this stage and gluing in the extra TE and aileron LE parts should be a cinch. Some extra parts to do this are provided in the kit - aileron ribs, horn blocks, ply horns etc.

Pat
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Old Jul 31, 2007, 12:54 AM
a.k.a Maltone
Australia, NSW, Goulburn
Joined Jan 2005
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Upper Wings

Nothing new here! The upper wings have the spars extended into the centre section where they will be firmly glued to a triangular brace made from 3 laminations of bass. (The clamped object in the foreground).

In all the wings, the root ribs were canted slightly inward to cope with the dihedral. It is not critical as there is only 1/2" dihedral at each tip.

That dihedral will still be enough without ailerons Peter?

The CS is very simple - three ribs, LE and TE plus the dihedral brace. Some additional strengthening to support the CS struts will be added later.

Pat
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Old Jul 31, 2007, 01:19 AM
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Pat,
Yes, that should be adequate dihedral, the sweep will help increase the stabilising effect. 1/2" is all I had on most of my earlier R/E/T designs and it never caused me any problems, they simply require nudging back to straight after a turn, rather than being truly self righting. Should anyone prefer mor dihedral, it's no problem to change the root rib angle and increase dihedral by as much as 50%.

Pete
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Old Jul 31, 2007, 01:40 AM
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The first biplane I've seen with fabric across the wingstruts. I imagine for drag reduction.
Wonder why it wasn't used more?

Did you have difficulty in telling that it was an AVRO from the pic?

Bill
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Old Jul 31, 2007, 01:48 AM
a.k.a Maltone
Australia, NSW, Goulburn
Joined Jan 2005
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Tailplane

Thanks Pete.

The tailplane is a very simple structure built of mainly laser-cut parts. Not included are the hinge-line spars - presumably suggesting that something a little harder than the lighter kit balsa would provide.

The elevator halves will be separated later and joined with piano-wire (music-wire ).

In the middle of the photo is the first of the interplane strut assemblies. As can be seen from the photo at the start of this thread, they are fabric covered - might help it go faster or fly straighter The struts are from bass and 1/8 balsa.

Now I must stop as I only have one building board at the moment AND everything on the plan is covered up!

Pat (looking at the wire bits)
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Old Jul 31, 2007, 01:54 AM
a.k.a Maltone
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Bill - yeah! not very subtle

Pat
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Old Jul 31, 2007, 08:24 AM
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I like the idea of not supplying the stab/elevator and fin/rudder hinge line spars as laser cut. The balsa we cut is a bit too soft for this kind of application. I didn't really see that until I built the M-S AI. Have to be careful with the iron when covering to keep from warping. I am getting away with it since I like the DuBro hinges and have used 3 per side.

Pat, you better get moving on this one, your next one is on it's way! And, the Laser Master said she included a bunch of Vicki pieces for you

charlie
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