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Old Jul 29, 2007, 10:44 AM
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Question about amps on 480 size planes

Right now I have several 400 size balsa planes running Himax 2025 and Eflite 450 motors, 2100mah packs, and 25amp ESCs. AUW for most of my planes is between 20-25oz. Also have a foam Typhoon 3D running a 25a ESC that weighs about 26oz.

Here is my question: I want to purchase another plane, but want something just a little bit bigger. Here are some of the planes I was interested in:

Eflite Extra 480
http://www.e-fliterc.com/Products/De...ProdID=EFL2475

Eflite Brio 10
http://www.e-fliterc.com/Products/De...ProdID=EFL2275

Seagull Extra 300
http://www.atlantahobby.com/shopexd.asp?id=6401

Fliton Extra 260
http://fliton.com/new/product/extra.asp

Fliton Inspide Mini
http://fliton.com/new/product/insmini.asp

=========================

Most of these weigh between 25-30oz, all say that you need a 30-40amp ESC, but when I do the math on motocalc, I am coming up with amp usage of less than 25.

Does anyone have any knowledge of these planes, or hte E-flite Park480 motor? Can I run my Castle Creations 25amp ESCs on these models without a problem?

If I can't, I am probably just going to upgrade to a 25 size model and spend the money, but that will cost several hundeds more.

Any help would be greatly appreciated. I plan on making a purchase within a few days.


Thanks!
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Old Jul 29, 2007, 11:09 AM
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I have a couple of analogous motors to the 480, the Hacker A30-28, Axi 2808 & Torque 2830. They pull right around 25 amps. If you use a good quality esc with some higher burst capacity, you will be fine. If you use a cheaper esc, you won't be. Right now I have the Torque in a Seagull Extra with a CC Phoenix 25. I had an Axi 2808 in a Katana Mini with a CC Phoenix 25. And a Stevens Aero Groove with a Hacker A30-28 with a CC Phoenix 25. All were fine.
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Old Jul 29, 2007, 11:17 AM
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Mostly it depends how you prop the park 480. My brother has one that he had on an eflite mini edge, and it pulled 32a WOT. I think he had a 1260 prop on it, but I'm not sure. I know that you can put a smaller prop on it, and just use good throttle management to keep it at around 25 amps.. I know the castle ESCs are capable of holding it, but not sure about the e-flite esc, and I know the tower pro or BP ESCs are pushing it.
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Old Jul 29, 2007, 11:35 AM
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The ESC I will be using is the Castle Creations Phoenix 25amp.

So if I went with the 480motor and the recommended prop on some of these models, which is either a 11x7E or 12x6E, then I should be fine even with periodic full throttle?
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Old Jul 29, 2007, 11:46 AM
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I think the phx 25 is a 25a cont. / 35a burst, so you should be Ok especially if you can put it in an area where it gets a lot of air over it to keep it cool. And put the smaller prop on it.
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Old Jul 29, 2007, 12:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jstone
I think the phx 25 is a 25a cont. / 35a burst, so you should be Ok especially if you can put it in an area where it gets a lot of air over it to keep it cool. And put the smaller prop on it.
Agreed
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Old Jul 29, 2007, 12:26 PM
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Sounds like a plan then!
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Old Jul 29, 2007, 12:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nitroaddict
Most of these weigh between 25-30oz, all say that you need a 30-40amp ESC, but when I do the math on motocalc, I am coming up with amp usage of less than 25.

Does anyone have any knowledge of these planes, or hte E-flite Park480 motor? Can I run my Castle Creations 25amp ESCs on these models without a problem?
The E-Flite Park 480 comes in two flavors.

A 910kV which is rated at 20 amps continuous and 25 amps burst for 15 seconds maximum. The manufacturer recommends an esc of 20-35 amps, so a Phoenix 25 should be ok, but keep in mind it will be running in the upper level of it's operating range.

A 1020kV which is rated at 22 amps continuous and 28 amps burst for 15 seconds maximum. The manufacturer recommends an esc of 25-40 amps, so a Phoenix 25 will be running a lot closer to it's upper limit of reliable operation.

This is my opinion only, so take it for what it's worth... but if it were my plane and motor, I'd be using a ThunderBird 36 amp esc regardless of whether I was using the 910kV or the 1020kV. To me, it seems like a very expensive experiment to see if the Phoenix 25 will survive unscathed, and possibly taking the motor along with it, and naturally, the plane and battery as well. And don't forget that those servos need amps too...

Chuck
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Old Jul 29, 2007, 01:50 PM
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If you do not have a watt meter then that needs to be your next purchase.

Moto calc may get you in the ball park, but there are just to many variable's to trust your equipment to it with out checking it your self.

Or you can just buy it and fly it and when you see the magic smoke you will know that that was too much.

I might be more concerned with what was happening to my batterys than the Castle ESC.( throttle management does not help the esc, it see,s WOT during the whole flight, just turns the power off to the motor to control speed . full on full off

Dennis
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Old Jul 29, 2007, 07:11 PM
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I am running several E-flite 480s (1020 kv version) with excellent results:
1) Mini Ultra Stick, 480, 3S 2100 (Apex MK IIIs), APC 10x7, 24A, 240 Watts
2) Mini FuntanaX, 480, 3s 2200 (Hextronic 20-30C), APC 11x7, 28A, 287 Watts
3) Brio 10, 480, 4S 2200 (Hextronic), APC 10x5, 31A, 434 Watts

An eight minute flight uses between 65 & 75% of the battery capacity with each combination. I use full throttle only for vertical lines and then for no more than 10 seconds at a time. Neither battery nor motor are more than slightly warm to the touch upon landing. Between them, these planes have logged more than 50 hours of flight time. All the motors are still strong and deliver the same performance now as they did new. It is a fine motor and I have no reason to look for a replacement.

Joe
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Old Jul 29, 2007, 07:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis C
If you do not have a watt meter then that needs to be your next purchase.
Good point. If you are going to go with limited headroom, which is fine, you should measure the amps to be sure.
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Old Jul 29, 2007, 08:11 PM
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I guess I should look at a wattmeter. I usually just either go with the manufactures recommendation or overkill, but I have this ESC laying around and want to use it.
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Old Jul 30, 2007, 06:58 AM
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I have found that the manufacturer's numbers and the experience found on the forum are amazingly consistant. I am not recommending that you forgo the watt meter, merely remarking that my numbers always seem to agree, given the same prop and setup.
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Old Jul 30, 2007, 08:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nitroaddict
Does anyone have any knowledge of these planes, or hte E-flite Park480 motor?
We run the E Flite 480 motors on our Mini Ultra Sticks and Mini Pulses at 30-31 amps. We can get away with that safely because we are using the E Flite 40 amps ESC. With the engine rated at 30 amps, you might think we are pushing the motor hard at that amperage, be we have never seen one get hot, even when cowled up. The 480 and E Flite 40amp ESC has been a stunningly reliable pakage for us. I have one combo that just turned over it's 400th flight.

Quote:
Can I run my Castle Creations 25amp ESCs on these models without a problem?
Lots of guys do it, but there was a thread last weekend where a guy lost an Ultra Stick 480 by toasting a 25 amp ESC. Since the radio relies on the ESC for power, this is one place I tend to buy bigger that I think I will need. It costs a few more dollars, but I never have to worry about the ESC causing my plane to crash.

Quote:
If I can't, I am probably just going to upgrade to a 25 size model and spend the money, but that will cost several hundeds more.
You don't need to do that unless you just want a big airplane. Even then, you need to go 4 cells to get killer performance, and the you will have ESC problems because very few onboard BECs won't handle ither extra current. Most guys run a seperate BEC, but I have grounded all my 25 size planes until the new E Flite $s Pro series controllers come out. Those BECs will handle up to 7S.

Don't get me wrong. I love the 25 size planes. They are just a little expensive right now, but I expect that to change as the market grows and Lipo prices drop. Also, companies like E Flite are seeing that most people want to just plug the equipment together and have it work without having to solder on extra BECs or having to do a bunch of programming. This, I believe, is why they came out with the 60 amp Pro Series ESCs. I think they are seeing that the 25E market is ready to explode, and as usual, they are ahead of everyone else.

Quote:
I plan on making a purchase within a few days.
OK, first............I'm an Ultra Stick kind of guy, and that plane with the 480 is just insane. It's also cheap and simple, easy to build, and vitrually bulletproof.

Next, I like the Mini Pulse 480 because it's insane too, and much better looking. It's just not as simple and maintenance free as the Ultra.

But, at the end of the month there will be this:



http://static.rcgroups.com/forums/at...20Showtime.jpg

http://www.e-fliterc.com/Products/De...ProdID=EFL2500

Now, you had better believe that I will have at least one of these. I've gotten to fly a friend's Showtime 90 and I fell in love with it. The 90 is too big to fit in my car, but this one will be just right.
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Old Jul 30, 2007, 09:38 AM
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Doc - I have a mini ultra stick right now, that I use a 450 outrunner on with another CC PHX25 ESC. It is a nice sport flyer. It sounds like I need to go with a plane that is designed for another 450 size motor then, to use this other 25amp ESC I have laying around. I want another plane, and if I can find something that only pulls about 20-25amps, then I can use all my equipment I already have other than an airframe and motor.
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