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Old Dec 04, 2002, 04:07 PM
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drbird's Avatar
Los Angeles
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The battery pack used for the prototype was a GWS 6 Cell 7.2 V / 600 mAh NiCad Pack. I placed the access hatch on the bottom for the prototype which gave access to the fan units, although the only time I have ever burned one of these fans out is when I tried to put a 9.6V pack to it. Yes for the prototype the 3-blade fans were used alothough the 6-blade fans could be used very easily.

John
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Old Dec 04, 2002, 04:38 PM
Tight is Right
Darren Hintze's Avatar
Lehi, Utah, United States
Joined Dec 2001
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Ah, a 6 cell pack does make more sense. I've burned out many a GWS motor on 7 cell packs. 8 cells seemed very high. Thanks for the info about the access hatch.

Looking forward to the Eurofighter reports!
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Old Dec 04, 2002, 06:01 PM
Registered User
Charlotte, NC
Joined Dec 2002
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GWS-50

I would imagine there isn't an easy way to change the motor if it burns out. I would have to destroy my duct in order to get to the motor and I would love to see someone re-duct this sucker once its covered!

Now you have me worried though. I have a 7cell pack on the way, and I am using a 6cell for break in and tests. Will the 7cell burn out the motors? I'm not much into electronics but I assumed since it was 2 motors on one pack it would be safe to go over the recommended max voltage. Is this an unsafe assumption?
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Old Dec 04, 2002, 06:18 PM
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Darren Hintze's Avatar
Lehi, Utah, United States
Joined Dec 2001
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Well let me unworry you just a little.

I've burned out lots of GWS motors in geared applications. I haven't yet run an EDF motor in the fan units. You have a testimonial from an EDF user saying he's not burned one out yet.

That said, I don't know any small brushed that gets 100+ flights reliably -- particularly in an application where cleaning/lubrication is not easy either. Given that the F-4 has two motors cranking away, I know I'd be thinking about how to get them out.

For some fliers, 100 flights is several years. I fly several times a week so 100 flights for me is about two months. I guess it's a matter of perspective as well.
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Old Dec 04, 2002, 06:36 PM
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Los Angeles
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The ducting should be a snap to get out and then simply replace. One thing you can do if the fan ever burns out is to simply shorten the duct and then add an intermediary ducting peice that seperate the fan unit from the main ducting - this way you just replace the intermediary ducting and the fan unit without ever having to worry about the main ducting. Again I haven't had any problems with the fan units to date other than by my my own vices (ie. overpowering them).


John
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Old Dec 04, 2002, 07:59 PM
Always looking UP
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Lilburn, Georgia, USA
Joined Nov 2000
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Fans

Quote:
Originally posted by Melfsmite
Well let me unworry you just a little.

I've burned out lots of GWS motors in geared applications. I haven't yet run an EDF motor in the fan units. You have a testimonial from an EDF user saying he's not burned one out yet.

That said, I don't know any small brushed that gets 100+ flights reliably -- particularly in an application where cleaning/lubrication is not easy either. Given that the F-4 has two motors cranking away, I know I'd be thinking about how to get them out.

For some fliers, 100 flights is several years. I fly several times a week so 100 flights for me is about two months. I guess it's a matter of perspective as well.
The unfortunate scenario is that these lil gws fan do not have mounting `fins', as in no screws to remove the fan anyway! It obviously wasnt designed to replace the motor in a `long duct' EDF. If you can't get at the front mount screws, pull the press on fan, or pull the leads from the rear, you are just kind of SOL.

I myself am working on resolutions to this problem

If I had designed this unit, it would have a short lead plug, flush rear ring, and mtg tabs, ALSO the fan and motor, should not stick out of the assembly!
This plane is not the only one with the same problem. Unless you fly her full throttle continuously, or by overpowering her, you should not need to replace the motor

Its like a cassette player motor, do you ever have to replace it???? And if you did, see how much fun it is
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Old Dec 05, 2002, 10:15 AM
Tight is Right
Darren Hintze's Avatar
Lehi, Utah, United States
Joined Dec 2001
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I hate to disagree but audio equipment motor life is not analagous to DF motor life.

Electric DC motors in DVD's, PC fans, VCR's, Disk Drives, etc are a) usually brushless and b) designed for long life. The motors in the EDF-50 are a)brushed and b) designed for high power-to-weight output.

Motor brushes have a very finite life. Spinning at tens of thousands of RPM's under load is going to wear them down -- thats the equivallent to about 5 years of audio motor wear in every 5 minute flight. The guys I know with experience with these motors are happy to get 50 flights at the upper recommended voltages. At $15 or so, it's not expensive to replace these fans... but it needs to be possible to replace them.

But like I said, it's also a matter of perspective. If 50 flights lasts you 2 years, great. I wouldn't care either. I know I'll be building my AERC Eurofighter or F-22 with motor changing in mind because I plan to fly my plane 50 times a month.

Can't wait for a flight report!
Melf
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Old Dec 05, 2002, 05:52 PM
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Lilburn, Georgia, USA
Joined Nov 2000
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You are correct

One possibility is to sheet the bottom, and if you need to change out motors, worst case would be cutting out the sheet, pulling out the fans, then recovering that area when finished
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Old Dec 06, 2002, 01:21 AM
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Hong Kong, Hong Kong Island, Hong Kong
Joined Apr 2001
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I think when I build my AERC F-4, and the F-22, I'm going to work a hatch into the bottom of it. Think that would work. I don't know how the battery mounts in the F-4 (I haven't ordered one yet) but I might try to work this hatch to double as battery access.

--Paul
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Old Dec 06, 2002, 02:02 AM
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drbird's Avatar
Los Angeles
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Thats exactly how the protoype was build Paul - one large hatch on the bottom to access eveything all at once.


John
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Old Dec 08, 2002, 09:06 AM
Forgot how to fly
Mike Parsons's Avatar
Atlanta, Georgia
Joined Oct 2002
10,177 Posts
Video

Drbird (John),
I thought some time ago you said you had Video of this bird in flight. Have you posted that somewhere so we can see it? You site has had "video coming soon" forever and a day. I am not building as quick as I would like and wouldn't mind some video of the F-4 to motivate me to complete it this week. How about it?


Foamflyer
Mike
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Old Dec 08, 2002, 01:28 PM
Dale Lindsay
Mt Airy, Maryland, United States
Joined Sep 2001
653 Posts
I'd like to see/hear this in flight too. I'm trying to hint to the fact that this kit would make me a really nice Christmas gift. I need ammo - and the video would help!
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Old Dec 08, 2002, 04:23 PM
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Los Angeles
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Phil (pval3) has agreed to shoot the video for us - he should get it done any day now and as soon as he does we will put it up. We also sent a kit off to Extreme Team in Sweden who has agreed to shoot a video for us. I honestly get quite a few e-mails daily from people who are waiting for the video so I am anxious as well! The only video footage to date is basically my camera on a tripod and a blur so I won't post that but I assure you video is on the way though!


John
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Old Dec 08, 2002, 06:27 PM
Forgot how to fly
Mike Parsons's Avatar
Atlanta, Georgia
Joined Oct 2002
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blurry Video

Post it blurry or not. Something is better than nothing. Hell I am a little concerened that there is not proven photo's or video to date since this thing has been out showing that it fly's. Kind of like a UFO at this point. Now I don't doubt Glenn's designs but come on, don't tell me there is nothing out there captured digitally since this bird has been out three months or so. I don't doubt that phil will get it in the air, but at least give me a teaser for what I am building. If you don't want to post it then email it to me. Foamflyer@bellsouth.net

FF
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Old Dec 08, 2002, 10:09 PM
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raleigh, NC usa
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PROGRESS??

Well folks,

the video was due to be shot this past week, fininshing touches were suppose to be finished on tuesday night.

Unfortunately - or fortunately depending on your perspective, I live in NC and we received the worst ice storm I have seen in 10 years. I have been without power for almost a week now and am only able to post this update because - - im on the road at a hotel computer.

The plane is fine as is my family and home - - but no power means it is goingto take a little more time to get things done and charged.

Planning on video toward the end of the week now depending on which day the power comes back on.

I will post the video to the aerc site and let you know about it asap

Phil
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