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Old Dec 19, 2002, 02:12 PM
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pval3's Avatar
raleigh, NC usa
Joined Aug 2001
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watt????

Hey Kevin,

I dont have a watt meter handy but I think they are drawing about 2 amp a piece, 4 total - - it is a guess but I tried it with one of the LI quallcom cells - for grinns and giggles - and the cells got very warm . . . not a good thing with LI cells.

I have no idea what li piloy cells will do - no experience with them.

They put out enough to fly it but not with authority due to the draw of the two fans. If you set it up with 2 speed controllers and two battery packs you would be set but in this config . . no can do IMHO.

On the 7 cell NIMhi pack, it did a beautiful 9 on the first flight which I caught mid air as it came toward the ground. The CG was off causing uncontrollable pitch up. It took off like a homesick angel up and over through!!!

Subsequent flights showed equal go but CG could not be worked out at the field . . came close but ran out of stuff to anchor the battery pack for flight.


Phil
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Old Dec 19, 2002, 02:39 PM
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Kevin P's Avatar
Cicero, Indiana
Joined Oct 2002
266 Posts
I was going to use a lIPo of 2040 mAh it handles up to 6 amps
Weighs 90.0g .5g (3.2oz) and would be configured as 2 cells in parallel and 2 cells in series (1020's).

A 7 cell AAA pack would weigh in roughly at 3.8oz so I would be saving a little weight. You may want to try it out.
But as with all of us LiPo technology is new and I am learning more everyday. But I can say I fly with mostly the LiPo's in all of my fleet now and am really happy with the performance so far.
Just a thought,

Kevin
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Old Dec 19, 2002, 10:43 PM
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pval3's Avatar
raleigh, NC usa
Joined Aug 2001
1,934 Posts
CG changes

have been doing a little playing tonight and here is where I am after the first day's events at the field.

The simple part is the taileron that was ripped off in the 5th test flight.

The stringers for the tailerons are great unless you bond the servo to the bottom stringer. If you have a good ding on landing you stand a good chance of fracturing the stringer because of the force imposed with foreward motion and the upward force of the ground due to the anhedral.

If you are not a great flier and or do not have a smooth place to fly I would suggest placing a balsa doubler on the outer edges of the stringers that hold the taileron servos in place as well as only applying glue GINGERLY to the mount that way the glue joint breaks away before the stringer.

I will be reinforcing mine with 1/16 X 1/8 stringer since I have to do it behind the covering (OBGYN style)

As for the CG. I monkeyed with the battery and found that I can only get the cd 2 3/4 foreward with the battery between f3 and f2, I am seriously considering moving the battery to the nose section in front of F2, this seemd to give me the closest compromise to the 3 - 3 1/2"mark for the CD as previously discussed.

To do this, I am going to have to seriously consider sheeting at least the underside of the foreward section of the fuselage to support the battery.

More later, it is late and Ihave to get up early

Phil
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Old Dec 20, 2002, 01:10 PM
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drbird's Avatar
Los Angeles
Joined Jan 2002
953 Posts
This seems to be the consensus. If you test the CG prior to flying it will look and feel centered right where the plans show but once in the air the CG is a little too far back. From what I've heard so far from other flyers you can simply move the battery pack up between formers F2 and F3. More room there anyway! If you still find you need more just move the radio equipment forward of F4 and that should be more than enough. Some seem to be a little tail heavier than others - the prototype was right on. I think the change in ducting material may have some cause in this. The thrust provided by these fan units is phenominal - producing more thrust may be almost pushing the tail of the plane. Anyway onto other matters. Thanks to Phil (pval3) he has sent in a small video that will shortly be placed on the AERC site.


John
http://www.aerc.biz
http://www.rc-plans.com
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Old Dec 20, 2002, 05:38 PM
Tight is Right
Darren Hintze's Avatar
Lehi, Utah, United States
Joined Dec 2001
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I have two EDF fans here just waiting for a project and with the delay of the Eurofighter I may have to break down and buy one of these little F-4's.

I have a couple of questions for those of you who've played with it a little now.

Would it be possible to alter the design to an elevator/aileron ship as opposed to tailerons? Looking at the pictures it seems there is enough room to mount an aileron servo in the wing with the control rods running through small holes in the formers by fans. I'd join the elevators with a dowel and move them together with a servo mounted farther forward to help with the CG issues discussed earlier.

What is the status of the F-22 and Eurofighter projects now?

Thanks!
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Old Dec 20, 2002, 06:19 PM
Always looking UP
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Lilburn, Georgia, USA
Joined Nov 2000
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Eurofighter status

The weather has been nothing but wind!!!!!!!!

Last weekend 10mph, gusting to 20, all this week 15 gusting to 25, I am really ticked. If not this weekend, We will attempt its maiden at the Dec 27th indoor event........
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Old Dec 20, 2002, 06:35 PM
Too lazy to repair!
jperch's Avatar
Round Rock, Tx
Joined Oct 2002
3,396 Posts
Newcomer

Just wanted to place a post to let you all know that I have been watching this thread almost since it started. I just got my F4 kit today! I have a project to finish up and I have two other jets to build as well. However, those are still waiting for motors and such whereas I already have enough EDF-50's for two of these F4's. I might just jump this one up on the list and start it while I am waiting on stuff for the others.

Thank you all for you efforts in posting your results so that I may learn from your mistakes.

Joe

Happy Holidays!
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Old Dec 20, 2002, 10:09 PM
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drbird's Avatar
Los Angeles
Joined Jan 2002
953 Posts
The F-22 has just undergone an almost complete design change. The guy that did this for us should be starting a thread here soon on E-Zone with pictures of the prototype building all the way up to maiden flight and then kit production. I would expect the kit to become available near the end of January if all goes well. The F-100 has been sent off to two of our beta testers for flight reports and construction manual. That kit should be released in mid to early January and has a predicted retail of under $40! January 1st we begin sales of the EDF-75 nacelles and pods. The Eurofighter has undergone a minor design change and should be "kit" worthy before too long. You can check with Glenn (aka. FANMAN) for more info on when that will be ready. As for our prop line we have planned a very nice WW2 speed 400 kit which has been completely designed and is now in testing. We have several designs on the table but are trying to sort through to the ones we really want to carry. We are planning a design for twin EDF-75's but mainly sticking to the EDF-50's for now. Our main goal for now is try and reduce cost on our end in order to reduce cost on your end. I think the F-100 at under $40 will be a shining example of this. We are always open to ideas and continue to try and put out design that are else where not found so please contact us with any and all suggestions and questions!


John
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Old Dec 23, 2002, 11:51 AM
Tight is Right
Darren Hintze's Avatar
Lehi, Utah, United States
Joined Dec 2001
7,639 Posts
Thanks for the update.

I think in the meantime I'll try my hand at a homebuilt Mig-29.

It's a nice, small twin with big duct openings that'll probably work well as a subject.

But I still am looking forward to the eurofighter!
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Old Dec 25, 2002, 05:29 PM
Too lazy to repair!
jperch's Avatar
Round Rock, Tx
Joined Oct 2002
3,396 Posts
Progress so far.

Well,
Here is how it looks after a few days. I decided to use the paper supplied with th ekit for the ducting material. However, I am having some serious trouble getting the front sections to fit properly. Any tips?

Thanks,
Joe
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Old Dec 25, 2002, 06:00 PM
Forgot how to fly
Mike Parsons's Avatar
Atlanta, Georgia
Joined Oct 2002
10,177 Posts
jperch

It was mentioned in this forum by another builder and Ezoner, to use the cut outs from f-2 inserted in the ducting to form and hold against the walls of f-2 while the glue sets. I used this technic and it worked great.
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Old Dec 25, 2002, 08:54 PM
Let's Fly
gbagley's Avatar
Metairie, Louisiana
Joined Apr 2001
460 Posts
Look at Midnit's Post about page Eight

jperch, What type of glue did you use? Also, check Midnit 's Post it has a Great Picture for the front duct work.

Merry Christmas to all!!!

I actually think I am going to be able to work on mine alittle tonight! More Pictures to come.

Look at the bottom of the page.
http://www.officeshops.com/aerc/index.htm



-geraldClick here to go to my pictures.
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Old Dec 25, 2002, 09:27 PM
Too lazy to repair!
jperch's Avatar
Round Rock, Tx
Joined Oct 2002
3,396 Posts
Quote:
jperch, What type of glue did you use? Also, check Midnit 's Post it has a Great Picture for the front duct work.
Gerald,

I used CA glue. I am impatient!

I test ran the motors and there is no sign of collapsing (yet).

I recall the use of the cutouts, but I think I tossed them!

I will keep trying. It is really cool watching it scoot across my table at 1/4 throttle as it is!

I will post more as progress continues.

Can you tell who got a digital camera for XMAS?

Hope everyone had a happy holiday.

Joe
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Old Dec 26, 2002, 09:20 AM
Forgot how to fly
Mike Parsons's Avatar
Atlanta, Georgia
Joined Oct 2002
10,177 Posts
glue

Jperch,
i would recommend using a glue stick and rub it around the inside of the former. I beleive it was pval3 that tried it first. My glue stick had about a 5 minute set time, so I had some time to work. It would hold against the former in about 60 seconds and I could make corrections if need be for up to 4-5 minutes.


Everyone, wish me luck, I have everything installed and will be covering it today. Or at least beginning. This will be my first covering job, so it ought to be interesting
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Old Dec 26, 2002, 09:25 AM
Always looking UP
FANMAN's Avatar
Lilburn, Georgia, USA
Joined Nov 2000
2,345 Posts
Re: glue

Quote:
Originally posted by foamflyer
Everyone, wish me luck, I have everything installed and will be covering it today. Or at least beginning. This will be my first covering job, so it ought to be interesting
GL Mike! RU going to the indoor event tomorrow? It will be do or die for the EF2000......also gonna get the Looney Tunes Airlines up!
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