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Old Jul 23, 2007, 09:21 PM
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My next Heli....still 4 ch - good for out door?

Here is what I am going to get next...but before that..any suggestions / comments about this heli? I am okay with the lama but definitely not good enough for those 3D - movement 6ch helis ... and I saw this 4 ch heli - Esky- E004 Honey Bee..anybody know how good this heli is? or if it's any good....in terms of performance comparing with the Lama V3/V4 --- Flight Time, Power...and most importantly...is it okay to fly out door on a calm windy day? Coz I know my Lama doesn't do too well outside with even a little wind. Of course you can do extreme mods and other upgrades to make the Lama v3/v4 perform better but I am not planning to spend too much money on upgrading my lama..gonna use my lama just for in door flight.

http://www.xheli.com/juinye20esho.html
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Old Jul 24, 2007, 06:10 AM
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HBFP? yep go for it! Fixed pitch helis can deal with more wind than co-axials. The HB is cheap to repair and quite crashworthy, and it will show you how many directions a single rotor heli can go all at the same time

Tach.
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Old Jul 24, 2007, 06:27 AM
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Please note that it will take a bigger learning curve to get the HB to hover, than it was for the Lamas. It is a whole different ball game flying a single rotor helicopter. The HB is a nice helicopter for the price and you can't go wrong with E-Sky.
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Old Jul 24, 2007, 09:35 AM
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Since the price difference isn't that terribly big......do you guys think I should jump to a 6-Channel Honey Bee King 2 instead (from the videos they looked so much stronger)? What do you guys think about that? Like in terms of learning curve, performance wise, cost of spare parts and etc..comparing between the Honey Bee and the HB King 2...since this is going to be my first Fixed-Pitch helicopter...I thought maybe just go ahead to the 6-ch one.....at first i would imagine I will never be able to do all those 3D moves like flying upside down and such. But at the least can you fly a 6-ch heli in the beginning like you fly a 4 channel one?...Oh by the way, I meant to say I might be getting the "Honey Bee (E004)", becuase the Honey Bee FP discontinued according to some vendors. And you wont' be able to find the FP on the Esky website (www.twf-sz.com) product section.

Thanks
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Old Jul 24, 2007, 09:41 AM
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Link to Honey Bee King 2: http://www.twf-sz.com/english/products.asp?prodid=0198

Link to Honey Bee CP 2 (another 6-ch to think about perhaps): http://www.twf-sz.com/english/products.asp?prodid=0002
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Old Jul 24, 2007, 10:13 AM
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I would buy the best that is affordable. In regards to learning curve, ANY fixed pitch single rotor helicopter is difficult to learn, when compared to a dual rotor. When I was learning on my CP, I realized where the word "Hell" came from.
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Old Jul 24, 2007, 10:23 AM
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LoL I hear you Scart - Maybe the Honey Bee or Honey Bee CP look "stable on YouTube but I guess it ddoesn't necessarily means they're easy to control. Yeah, I would think the Honey bee is good for beginners like me - affordable - cheaper in parts (compared to the Honey Bee King 2 and CP).....But - how hard is it comparing a 4 -ch heli to a 6 - ch one?
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Old Jul 24, 2007, 11:10 AM
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Well a 6 channel heli requires more setting up, which is OK if you're patient and can understand some of what is required. Having said that, a collective pitch heli has even more controllability in wind than an FP heli does - say the heli balloons up in the wind, so you reduce throttle (collective) to descend... on an FP you can end up with the headspeed low enough to lose cyclic control...on a CP you're just altering the blade pitch to descend because they CP helis usually have an autorotation or freewheeling hub in the main gear, so that cyclic control is maintained. OK the rotor will slow eventually because you've backed off the throttle, but not as rapidly as the FP rotor.

However, CP helis tend not to crash as cheaply as FP ones, so be patient and take little steps with the learning curve.

Tach.
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Old Jul 24, 2007, 11:53 AM
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I did the reverse, I went from a Honey Bee King to a Lama! I have been flying R/C planes for years and the big advantage of a plane it seems to me is that they tend to go forwards. Wherever they are heading, up, down, left right - whatever - they go forward. Well - not so with a helicopter. So I bought a Honey Bee King and had a lot of fun, and a lot of issues and learnt a lot! The remains of my Honey Bee still sits in the window above my bench. I got a bunch of hoppy flights out of it until one day - well, it just went up and up and I lost forward and it came down sideways - hard! Sigh.

So I am doing very well with my Lama and it is turning out to be a valuable tool in teaching me where to point the thing and how to handle the tail.

The difference in technology however is signficant - at least it seems to me to be that way. The Lama is nothing compared to the Honey Bee when it comes to setting it up and getting - and keeping - it trimmed. In the HBK the rotors whizz around at a roughly fixed speed, then you apply pitch and up she goes. It seems to me they whizz a lot faster than the Lama too. Mine had a balance problem from the get-go. I now have scales and I painstakingly balance the blades (did - that is. I never bothered with the Lama to balance anything.) Well balanced blades seemed to make a big difference.

Setting up the swashplate too was a challenge. If you are familiar with setting up computer radios on planes it is not so hard, but the swashplate travel, pitch curves, throttle curves and all are pretty critical. Not hard - but painstaking. The thing really has no room for error. And understanding what it was all about was essential - lots of help on the web there and I have books and printouts and read it all.

The gyro also proved a challenge for me in that I had it working backwards at first - man the thing was a pain to control! Then I was shown how to "flick" the tail of the helicopter in one direction and watch which way the tail rotor turns - it should turn to push against the direction of the flick. Once I had it set up in the proper direction the gain was a challenge, but not too difficult to get right - again, patience and time and a few martinis.

Bottom line, in my opinion, there is a world of difference between the Honey Bee King with CCPM and the Lama. I find the Lama a very satisfying machine to fly and it is really helping me get to handle the controls properly. Hovering with the HBK was far more difficult, but I was getting there. Training wheels on the HBK are essential - for me they were, for the Lama I don't need them at all.

I am now building a T-Rex - they make an ARF but I love building and it seems to me to know how the thing goes together - for the inevitable TakeItApartToFixIt - is valuable knowledge. I shall not fly this until I feel more secure though. I have also been told the T-Rex is more stable than the HBK, dunno.

The other thing that is worth its weight in gold is a good simulator. I have Real Flight which is not cheap but it gets terrific use, not only by me but by all the kids - the male ones at least - as well! Also I can fly planes of all descriptions as well as different helicopters. Worth the money.

Hope this helps. Good luck - the HBK is a great gadget!

Lawrence
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Old Jul 24, 2007, 12:18 PM
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oK....I will forget about the Honey Bee King and Honey Bee CP. I will just get the 4-ch Honey Bee. I just want something that's easy to control yet powerful enough to do a little bit of out door. I know for a FACT that the Honey Bee is harder to control than a Lama V3/V4 but it's more powerful than the Lama to do outside flying.

Even though to be honest I concluded 80% getting the Honey Bee, but last night when I looked at some of those Honey Bee King 2 videos they just blew my mind away - taking into account the perofrmance for the price of the Honey Bee King 2, not bad at all...that's why I thought "maybe" I can go for a 6-ch Honey Bee King 2 as suppose getting the 4-ch Honey Bee. But based on what you guys have said...I'm going to step away from the 6-ch Honey Bee King 2 for now, at least for a couple of months and test to see how I do with the "harder to control compared to the lama" Honey Bee first, then maybe I'll switch to a 6 ch heli. But, damn, that Honey Bee King 2 can fly ! And they come with carbon fibre version as well ~~~ouuu~~ so tempting. And they are not crazy expensive......Honey Bee King 2 is just 40$ - 50 $more (approx) than the Honey Bee
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Old Jul 24, 2007, 01:17 PM
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Compared to an FP heli, your Lama practically flies itself. That should give you an idea of the learning curve required to fly an FP heli after you have become proficient on a coax. Also, although FP's have more FF authority in MILD winds, they are really not good for anything over about 5mph winds; they just don't perform in winds like a CP heli. Their big advantage over a CP is that they are fairly rugged and cheap to fix. Most of my FP crashes do not require parts replacement. With CP's, you're almost guaranteed having to repair it after every crash.

Doubletap
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Old Jul 25, 2007, 08:17 AM
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I really do recommend a simulator, it will give you an idea of how the various helicopters, and planes, perform; it's also great fun. They are expensive but save money as you can get a feel for a particular model without having to buy replacement parts! My biggest problem with a helicopter was handling the tail, getting the nose in the right direction. I learnt with the simultor that if I could keep my brain focused on the FRONT of the helicoptor, and be always aware of left, right and backwards (the nose-out, nose-in syndrome, which I find my years of airplane flying have really helped train me) then my hope is that going back to CCPM from a Lama will be less of a disaster! Some months out to be sure and I'll report my success, but meanwhile the Lama is a lot of fun.

Lawrence
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