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Old Jul 06, 2007, 02:57 PM
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Chorley Lancs UK
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Drives, Drives,And More,Drives

Hi All........... Well......Im going to pick up my new Milling Machine Tomorrow..... Not The R8 I expected,But an MT3. The the R8's Are probably still in China ....... So We'll say no more about that .......
I was'nt going to start this thread yet,since I dont really have what I would call enough information to post......But I do have the bottom half of the drawing drawn, but no dimensions as yet ,Ive done it as a multi colour view to make the individual components stand out more ,and once again Ive made a what will double as a cutaway window/alignment Jig so that all the guts will be shown like the previous one ,but thats not complete yet , I expect it finished sometime next week( after I've milled the window in) ............................
So A brief outline of whats in my mind with this ..Ive been thinking about this for some time now .....and with all the modifications to the previous drives ,along with the weeping of water into the MK3..... I thought maybe its time to look at this a bit deeper.So I'll bring you up to date with the progress so far..............
This new drive will be a much more accurate ,concentric ,compact.... and last but not least, totally maintaiable running in oil rather than grease......the drawing will show the outline of the bottom half of the head(below the Keel)....This will be completed as I get the motor housing and the lower rudder bearing within the Keel sorted..........
Ive pretty well built the Aligment Jig,but I'll describe that later....... Ive also been trying to make the tees(Housings ) as a one piece item ......Early attempts were not very good, due to my lack of engineering knowledge,but I've been playing around with a four Jaw chuck ,which has opened up a whole new area as the pics below will describe.And along with the screw cutting.Im on a very steep learning curve I can tell you...................So have a look at the pics and please feel free to throw in comments constuctive or otherwise....
One thing I will say...... Is depending on the level of discussion on this thread will depend on wether I keep it going or not.....................Alan
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Old Jul 06, 2007, 08:02 PM
Sea Dragon-Lover
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PDX, OR
Joined Dec 2002
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Wow, I would not have imagined turning a brick like that to be feasible.
I keep seeing the sides come around to the bit in a sort of WHAP WHAP WHAP fashion.

It seems to have worked out really well for you. The parts look very professional.
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Old Jul 06, 2007, 08:18 PM
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Ariel WA
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Z drives

Very good start on your design. Just for food for thought here is a design that I have been modeling in 3D CAD.

Dave
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Old Jul 06, 2007, 09:50 PM
Grumpa Tom
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Quote:
Originally Posted by algiecrook
One thing I will say...... Is depending on the level of discussion on this thread will depend on wether I keep it going or not.....................Alan
Rule #1: Trash that concept, Alan! We will all be watching in awe, speechless. So just keep posting pics and details and never mind the comments from the peanut gallery!
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Old Jul 06, 2007, 10:13 PM
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Agreed!!!! I have no idea what you are doing but I am sure I want to find out what happens.
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Old Jul 06, 2007, 11:29 PM
Boats on the brain!!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kmot
Rule #1: Trash that concept, Alan! We will all be watching in awe, speechless. So just keep posting pics and details and never mind the comments from the peanut gallery!
Ditto Alan, you've got my attention.
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Old Jul 07, 2007, 01:43 PM
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Umi Hi the method Im told is not correct for centring But that brick came out spot on with the caliper ,including corner to corner,must admit it took some time to centre.............
Wap,wap, wap...... yes got it in one..The secret here was brand new indexable inserts..... very sharp ,and they seemed to do the trick, my son says Im using the 4 Jaw incorrectly so Ive got another lesson to come , how I did it well I will for the short term have to plead the fifth until Im shown how its really done ..............
Dave ...... Nice one ..... I dont have Cad , I think I have enough to cope with..... with the turning and milling,you have 1 more gear than I do,but the principle is the same ..... the next bit is the hard bit getting it in the hull without too many mods Lol
Tom............ I nearly called you on the phone to ask if you could pop over to help me get the mill out of the car........... as always I ended up calling on my old mate Leonardo to come up with some way to do the job .............Pic Below......... regrettably its not an R8,but looking at it I cant see much difference really and I got a full set of collets for free....
Gravman....... If you read my thread about the Seawell ( http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...524835&page=46) you'll soon get the picture..... Keep watching...................
Phil thanks for that as said keep watching
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Old Jul 07, 2007, 02:15 PM
Grumpa Tom
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Alan, congrats on the shiny new mill!

R8 vs M3: Zero difference in the way the machine looks or operates. The difference lies in the amount of available tooling and since you have a lot of m3 stuff already the difference is moot.

Very important: tramming the mill. You must tram the mill to be certain you are doing everything 'square'.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=tramming+the+mill

Good website:

http://www.mini-lathe.com/Mini_mill/Main/mini-mill.htm

I disassembled mine, cleaned it and greased it and put it back together and trammed it. It has been been lovely since.

The dial indicator readings are .0005"
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Old Jul 09, 2007, 04:33 AM
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Chorley Lancs UK
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Tom..... Many thanks for that..... My Son whilst he was up here for the weekend a couple of weeks ago taught me loosely what I would have to do to set up the head on the mill by setting up the Chuck to tailstock on the lathe, and the table to Chuck on the Pillar drill for me.......
My Mill is certainly not anything like acceptable, as you found, so yesterday I stripped the table off and did what you have done and started to clock the head in,my table is ok side to side but front to back is a different story..........There appears to be no adjustment provided,so I went on the site you linke to me and Varmint als site too and sure enough I found that it is possible to shim the pillar at the point where the three cap head screws are,which mount the pillar and the base together...........So thats what Im doing now ....... Im also using a fly cutter to get a perfect circle both in finish and depth...... Ive never done this before ....... so I think patience is the order of the day here.... Im told that The big 0 is attainable.................
One question arises from your pics ??? How is your clock supported ?... Mines a different type of clock and is fitted in the Chuck and has a finger protruding from the bottom of the clock body.........
I did spot an interesting point on one of the sites I visited ,that was using a peice of glass on the bed for the finger to run on, looks much easier than how Im doing it with a parallel........ I'll take some pics later and post them tonight.Need some bolts to hold the vise...............Alan
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Old Jul 09, 2007, 10:22 AM
Grumpa Tom
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Quote:
Originally Posted by algiecrook
One question arises from your pics ??? How is your clock supported ?... Mines a different type of clock and is fitted in the Chuck and has a finger protruding from the bottom of the clock body.........
Well, I used another method. Firstly, my dial indicator is supported by a magnetic base. I attached the base to the column and checked spindle runout as seen in the following photos. The runout was excellent. I then attached the magentic base to the column, and with the dial indicator touching the table, while the table was centered, set it to 0.0"

Then I used the crank to move the table to the left, and then to the right. If you look at the pictures above and notice the measure at the bottom of the table you will see it is in different positions. 3" right and then 3" left. I also did the same for the "Y" axis.

Six of one; half dozen of the other I suppose. The road differs but leads to the same destination.
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Old Jul 11, 2007, 06:27 AM
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Tom thanks for all that....... Im having a problem with the X axis Tramming ........Im onto the supplier....... there seems to be a ..... large problem with the comparison front to back When I clock it,its a lot out,when I use a Fly cutter its near enough perfect cant figure it at the moment ..... I dont know why its happening, Im even suspecting the clock..... Ive done a couple of pics ,playing around with a peice of flat Ali .Im sure you must agree that its pretty close ...........There doesnt seem to be any front to back adjustment short of shimming the column....... Just my B----y Luck Eh ........ Alan

PS....... Please note the way the cutter is installed is not correct for what it was ground for ..... Im just using the tip to scribe a circle .. and thats why the long bit looks badly machined.....I would also be interested in any similar problems any of you have come up against clocking heads in on this type of Machine.............A........
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Old Jul 11, 2007, 09:02 AM
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Olympia WA
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Alan, if you look closely at the picture of making the circle, it looks like the cutting tool is oriented the wrong way. The beveled edge or ground edge should be 90 degrees to the rotation, it looks like yours is cutting on the edge of the cutter rather than the face and that might be the reason the traversed cut looks do rough. A flycutter should give you a better finish than that. Just my two cents. I'm looking at the picture of the L shaped material Jerry J
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Old Jul 11, 2007, 09:12 AM
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Jerry....... Yes Lol ,I did comment that the cutter was not being used correctly ,I must also clear up that the bit of the L shaped bit of scrap was in the Vise when I did the machining......Im too chicken to do any machining when the stuff is hanging out to the side ...............Yes your absolutely right in what you say,my apologies ............Alan


PS Are you in Washington state .... Im trying to learn all the abbreviations ..A
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Old Jul 11, 2007, 01:43 PM
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Yes, Washington state, Olympia, state capital. I have invested in tools for the last fifty years and that has been one of the best investments I have made. Lathes, mills etc. have only increased in value both on the market and to me. It is nice to spend some of the rainy days of winter in the shop so keep experimenting with machining methods. I went back and reread the note and yes you did say you were using the flycutter for indicating only. No apology needed to me. Jerry J.
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Old Jul 11, 2007, 02:40 PM
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Hi All....... You may have noticed in the post where the drawing is ,that Ive only completed the bottom half of the drive situated below the keel,the reason for this is that I was having difficulty finding a motor with the acceptable speed and torque.
The only one that comes near the dimensions I need, is a robotic one with a very high spec.......cost wise its also beyond my reach at something like 200,00 GBP. Whist Im not generally put off by this ,I feel that this head business is beginning to eat into the budget for the whole ship................
So what Im proposing to do,is to complete the build of the new drive with the same upper dimensions as the previous one ,but with the sealing proposals and the gears of the new one ........... this is not to say Im abandoning the new version ,infact Im even looking at building in or making my own motors,thats for later.........
Im afraid that Ive been bitten with the bug to finish what I start....and the one thing staring me in the face is what scratch building really is ......... When I look around and see what some people have acheived ,well the mind boggles and the size too is nothing but astronomical..........so dont be too surprised when you get a bit of dejavu(spelling?) in the drive you see going into the Seawell in the next few weeks .......... So there we have it sermon over I only have one pic today and that is of the one peice housing I made with a hole cut in the side to show the compactness once assembled together, Obviously all the square will be machined off in the finished version to leave a perfect tee shape , he said hopefully Hope you like .....................Alan

PS the jig I made for the purpose of alignment was a disaster simply because I machined most of the thread away by cutting the window in the side.......... sheesh we live and learn dont we , thats why I opened up the tee as below ....... More for the scrap box Tom .....A
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