|View Poll Results: What do you think of the X-3D Brushless Quadrocopter?|
|Super. This blows away the competition in performance||41||33.88%|
|Great. I feel it is designed well and exceeds all expectations||20||16.53%|
|Good. I enjoy flying it. But I have other Heli aircraft type I enjoy more||5||4.13%|
|Fair. I think that it has problems which should be addressed||1||0.83%|
|Horrible. It has design faults and I cannot recommend it to anyone||2||1.65%|
|Way Cool. I want one but it is out of my price range||52||42.98%|
|Voters: 121. You may not vote on this poll|
|Jun 29, 2007, 03:41 AM|
X-3D Brushless Quadrocopter, general quadrocopter, x-ufo discussion
In anticipation for the X-3D Crew's X-BL Quadrocopter kit components finally becoming available together for the first time, this occasion warrants its own thread for discussion.
The X-3D Brushless Quadrocopter is the high-end four-rotor helicopter developed by the X-3D Crew (including two of the original designers of the Silverlit X-UFO). The new craft is no longer a toy … but a professional flying machine. It uses four brushless outrunners motors (called X-BL) which are connected to the high-performance brushless controllers (called X-BLDC) which where developed for the needs of a multi-rotor system. Due to the high speed attitude controller running at 1kHz and the very good power to thrust ratio of about 4:1 the X-BL is a perfect trainer for acrobatic helicopter flying. It shares the advantages of the mechanical simplicity and robustness with all other quadro-, and multicopters. No complex swashplate and head assembly to worry about. Here are some pics of the completed X-BL Quadrocopter (with beta X-BL motors ... the current X-BL motors are mono-tone color and more powerful)
It is currently planned to be sold as a DIY Kit Project where the key components of the X-3D Gyro Board, X-Base Main Board, X-BL Brushless controller and motor kit, X-CSM Frame, X-Propellers, USB Interface, Tx and Rx will be available separately. This DIY Project will require some minor soldering of the X-BL, Rx, power connector, and LEDs to the X-Base Main Board. With the flexibility of supporting different Receivers, any 6-channel Transmitter or higher can be used to control it.
Quadrocopters operate on the principle of using two pairs of counter rotating fixed propellers. Controlling the rpms of each individual motor by a microcomputer allows for ascend/descend, turn right/left, tilt forward/back, or roll left/right flight characteristics. In that respect, it is a little easier to fly than a conventional RC helicopter.
Videos of the X-3D BL in action
X-3D BL in action along with a proto star-3D:
X-3D BL + ACC Module in action:
X-3D BL carrying a digital camera:
Early development (shot at M.I.T.) of the X-3D BL technology:
More videos can be found here ... http://forum.xufo.net/bb/viewforum.php?f=22
Note: Prices are snapshots and are subject to change
The X-3D Brushless Quadrocopter consists of the following electronic and mechanical components:
(1) X-3D Gyro Board Specs
Sensor PCB, running the attitude controller loops
Part Number: 17188124 => Price: 174,90 Euros = ~235.4154 U.S. dollars
X-3D manual and software downloads: http://www.x-3d.org/download/x3d.htm
- 1 kHz controller update rate
- compatible with the original X-Ufo as well as the X-Base (brushed and brushless)
- 3 Piezo Gyros (pitch, roll, yaw) with heading hold
- 4 operations modes configurable with jumpers
- software update via PC with USB connection allows full customization of flight characteristic parameters (optionally available)
(2) X-Base + X-ACT Receiver Bundle Specs
Universal peripheral main board for connecting the motors, the receiver, LEDs and other user electronics
Part Number: 17188144 => Price: 99,90 Euros = ~122.3514 U.S. dollars
X-Base manual and software downloads: http://www.x-3d.org/download/xbase.htm
- 4 Connectors for X-BLDC motor controllers
- 4 Connectors for brushed motors up to 8A per motor
- 4 LED connectors
- 4 switchable outputs for additional functions (up to 8A each; only in BL mode)
- Dynamic Thrust Control (DTC) for brushed and brushless motors
- Serial receiver connector (for X-ACT-X3D Edition)
- PPM-In connector for modified standard receivers
- firmware update via the X-3D''s USB module
- comprehensive PC software (Firmware update, calibration, diagnosis, etc...)
- Electronic main on/off switch with customizable overcurrent and undervoltage cutoff
- Automatic "learning" of all transmitters (center positions, travel adjustments, channel assignments and inversions) using the PC software
- up to four extra servo outputs (on transmitters with >4 channels)
- protection against wrong battery polarity
- LED status light patterns
(3) X-BL Kit Specs
Part Number: 17188144 => Price: 399,90 Euros = ~538.2654 U.S. dollars
X-BL manual downloads: http://www.x-3d.org/download/xbl.htm
Pic of the actual X-BL (the ones above are of the beta BL)
Special Brushless Controllers and Brushless Motors. The X-BL kit consists of:
- 4x 17188145 X-BLDC brushless controllers
- 4x 17188147 X-BL52S motors
X-BL Brushless Controllers
- extremely fast brushless controller optimized for the X-3D BL application
- fast I2C bus interface connection to the X-Base at 1 kHz update rate
- firmware update via I2C through the X-Base and the X-3D USB adapter
- exclusively optimized for the X-BL 52S motor
- weight: 8g including power wires
X-BL 52S motor
- 14 pole outrunner, optimized for high performance in the X-3D BL application
- propeller mounts for the X-UFO propellers and upcoming X-BL propellers
- fine-tuned for the X-BLDC brushless controller
- weight: 27.5g
(4) X-CSM Specs
Part Number: 17188150 BL-Only arm support => Price: 175,90 Euros = ~236.7614 U.S. dollars
Part Number: 17188140 Brushed/BL arm support => Price: 179,90 Euros = ~241,74962 U.S. dollars
X-CSM manual download: http://www.x-3d.org/download/xcsm.htm
A frame for the X-BL Quadcopter. The abbreviation stands for Carbon Sandwich Magnesium.
- Light weight carbon/balsa sandwich booms
- Magnesium/CF X-CSM core protects main electronics and battery and acts as landing gear
- Antenna mount point
- Weight: 75g
- axis distance: 32cm
Part Number: 17188140 Brushed/BL arm support => Price: 8,90 Euros = 11.9794 U.S. dollars, $6.99 stateside
2 clockwise propellers, 2 counterclockwise propellers
- Standard X-Ufo propellers for safety and reliability can be adapted and used
- or upcoming modified high performance propellers (TBD)
(6)X-3D USB Interface + Software
Part Number: 17188125 => Price: 19,90 Euros = ~26.7854 U.S. dollars
X-CSM manual download: http://www.x-3d.org/download/x3d.htm
This is a board adapter to computer USB interface with Windows application used to program the X-BL Quadrocopter
- Allows firmware programming and tweaking of the X-3D Gyroboard
- Allows firmware programming and tweaking of the X-Base main board
Optional X-ACC => Price: 96,90 euros = ~ 142.82091 U.S. dollars
X-3D and X-Base use a three axis acceleration sensor (X-ACC) as absolute angle reference in pitch and roll
The well known X-3D heading hold mode remains fully functional. Loops, rolls in any combination and all tricks are still possible. Your user defined settings are still compatible! The Ext1 function (which can be trained in with the X-Base e.g. on channel 5) is used to switch to the X-ACC mode during flight.
The X-ACC mode estimates the absolute pitch and roll angle with an ultra fast data fusion. The RC sticks set the absolute angle!
Put the sticks in the middle and the UFO will come back to a horizontal level within the measurement precision. The X-ACC mode is perfect for very precise indoor flights and for beginners to get in touch with flying a UFO.
The unique three axis compensation enables the X-ACC UFO to fly highly dynamic maneuvers with excellent precision and gives a safe start for dynamic 2D aerobatic flights.
Close or far away: The X-ACC ensures that the UFO is always controllable. This is increasing the safe maximum flight distance. In case of an reception loss the UFO comes back to the horizontal level and descends slowly.
Future investment All potentially upcoming X-Base upgrades will be able to use the X-ACC as well.
Compatibility The X-ACC works with brushed motors as well as in brushless UFOs.
Note: Can be used to stabilize for Areal Video/Photography Platform
First X-ACC impressions here ... http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...postcount=1315
Option 1 (recommended method)
X-ACT 35MHz, 40MHz, and 72MHz (72MHz Receiver will be available ???)
- DSL protocol one simple plug in cable mating with the X-Base
- Programmable functions through the X-Base
- Designed and modified for the X-BL
- Calibration done via X-Base with X-Control PC software
- Freedom to use any receiver with special downloadable firmware version.
- Any 4 channel PPM receiver may modified to work with the X-Base
- 3 wire connection soldered to through hole pads on X-Base (Power, Ground and PPM serial signal)
- Up to 8 channels decoded from PPM serial signal from any 4 channel receiver
- Corresponding matching Rx/Tx Crystal
Note: Many using the Berg 4L mini 4 channel receiver procedures follow link
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...&postcount=140 and http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...&postcount=137
and mine here http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...&postcount=582 ... I kept the pins in place to be able to use the extra 5V power/ground pins for other things like LEDs and CAM.
NOTE: If you remove the pin pads, you can introduce more problems on the board traces.
- Any PPM Supported Professional Transmitter will work using ACRO standard settings
- Recommended 6-channels or greater (Some folks are operating minimally with 4-channels)
Additional things needed to get the X-3D Brushless Quadrocopter off the ground
- Lipo Battery connector and gage wire to be soldered to the X-Base main board
- Lipo Battery for flying (730, 900, 910, 1000, 1050, etc... mAh 3-cell 11.1V)
- Tx/Rx matching crystal frequencies
- Optional NAV LED and wires to be soldered to the X-Base main board (can use existing X-UFO LED boards)
- NOTE: cables (10 to 12 gauge?) and connectors need to be able to take 20amps of average current (max current could be up to < 40amps)
Brushless X-3D Quadrocopter Technical Data
* Diameter: 32 cm (without propellers)
* Weight without battery: 260g
* Thrust: 4*330g = 1320g max thrust (this means it can lift ~500g. But not longer than 2 minutes)
* Expert Mode gives the ability to do 3D tricks like loops and rolls
All components are exclusively sold by the XUfo-shop (http://www.xufo-shop.de). Note: an English version of xufo-shop coming soon.
Currently German->English translators like http://babelfish.altavista.com/ can be used to translate order form line items or send an email to the shop detailing what you want to order. They accept PayPAL (for a small service charge) which will do the currency conversion when paying in Euros.
NEW: ... the shop now sells a X3D-BL UFO Komplett Kit with consists of
17188150 X-CSM Frame
17188124 X-3D Gyro Board
17188125 X-3D USB Interface
17188142 X-Base main board
17188143 X-ACT Receiver (you can opt out of this if you are going use a Berg 4L)
17188145 X-BDLC Brushless Controllers (4x)
17188146 X-BL Motors (4x)
124749 X-Base-Power cable w/G2 connector
85640 Propellers (4x)
With Optional Accessories:
FUTABA FF6 35MHz (NOT COMPATIBLE FOR US)
X-BL LIPO-KOKAM 910H w/G2 connector
X-BL Charging Leads w/G2 connector
* X-3D: since September 2006
* X-CSM: since May 2007
* X-Base: since end of May 2007
* X-BL: since July 2007
* X-3D, X-Base, X-CSM, X-BL package kit now available
* X-ACC: now available
Latest software can be found here ... http://www.asctec.de/main/index.php?...=&cat=&lang=en
Available through http://forum.xufo.net … Don't let a German forum site scare you, There is a healthy English speaking community there and posting/answers can be in English. There is also an [In English] bablefish translator for German content in the toolbar. There is a large established community of friendly Quadrocopter flyers and X-BL beta testers there.
Special Thanks to dawidi's http://wiki.xufo.net/wiki/Main_Page, wister, and Jast for helping to compile additional X-BL related info.
For newbies to Quadrocopters or followers of the Silverlit X-UFO, X-UFO Upgrade path, X-Tuning, refer to the previous general discussion thread below
Discussion - General Silverlit X-UFO, X-upgrades, and BL UFO Upgrade
This will link you to several other past threads and forum topics with an abundance of related information buried within.
In the previous thread, there is already discussion from experience on the new X-CSM frame, X-Base main board, Berg 4L Receiver mod and installation, the X-3D gyroboard, and +20C lipo battery discussion for the BL Upgrade. The X-BL kit is the eagerly awaited missing component that hopefully will arrive soon.
What the X-CSM, X-Base, and X-BL Kit looks like ... shipment received ... Click on the link to see the pics ...
This discussion is not limited to the X-3D Brushless Quadrocopter, but also should include anything X-UFO, X-Tuning, or Quadrocopter related ... so continue on with these topics of general discussion as well.
Happy Flying ...
Last edited by tend2it; Apr 22, 2008 at 09:17 PM.
|Jun 29, 2007, 05:37 AM|
Here is how to mod and connect the Castle Creations Berg 4L Receiver
to the X-base. (the berg 4L is 4 channels, the X-Base can decode up to 8 channels from the PPM signal)
1. Castle Creations Berg L4
2. Soldering Iron
4. Shrink tube 1/2"
5. 3. different color wires (the gauge dosent really matter as long as you can solder it to the pin where the PPM signal comes from without shorting it to any other pin)
6. exacto knife
7. PPM Firmware Version for x-base Here (for Brushed Motors !!RIGHT CLICK THEN HIT SAVE TARGET AS!!) or (for BL motors, not available yet)
8. USB interface, X-Control software
9. glue gun to provide strain relief for wires
Modding the Castle Creations Berg 4L
here is a picture of the Berg 4L rx, and the info from the site found by Damon pasted here, I will add a link to the site where this info was found. I guess I should add the Berg 4L has autoshift (or shift selectable) even though I understand this does not matter with the X-Base!
here is the site
here is the info pasted
Recommended 72Mhz R/C Receivers
Wiring of a Berg 4L Castle Creations Berg 4L
Expect fantastic performance from these $40 USD parts but be warned that they are known to have unreliable crystal sockets and brittle antenna wire. The Berg 7 channel receiver should work equally well and is known to have a better crystal socket - note that either receiver will provide 8 channels in manual R/C mode when used with Paparazzi. Note: the rugged Berg 4 cannot be modified, only the Berg 4L and Berg 7.
To Modify a Berg4L, follow these instructions:
1. Remove the shrink wrap. Use a good knife and be careful to not damage any of the components on the receiver. I would recommend that you cut on the sides (edge of the PCB) to be sure to avoid damaging the shielding
2. Desolder the headers. We will not use them with tiny AP as the servos are connected directly to the AP. This is pretty easy to do when you have a hot air rework station. If you don't have one, your best bet is to cut the header off and remove the left over pins one by one with a regular iron. There is a piece of sheilding material that is connected to one of the ground pins of the header. You need to remove it carefully from the header without damaging it and re-solder it to the gnd pad.
3. You need to solder 3 wires to the receiver. Gnd, +5V and PPM. To locate the PPM signal, first locate the PIC micro controller close to the location of the headers. The PPM signal is on the corner pin closest to the corner of the receiver. Soldering a 28guage wire directly to the PIN isn't very difficult. For the power connection, use the pads that were used for the header. The outside pin is Gnd, the second pin is +5V. What I did is solder the wires on the pad going strait down, then I looped the 3 wires 360 degrees and glued them to the PCB with hot glue. This provides good strain relief.
4. While you have the PCB in your hands, take the opportunity to remove the crystal connector and solder your crystal directly to the PCB for added reliability.
5. I also used some hot glue to add more strain relief to the antenna
6. Use some large shrink wrap to cover the entire receiver again
will post some pictures with the signals marked
BTW, I did buy some heat shrink, 3/4" dia heat shrink is way too big, 1/2" is a good size a good size, it is a tight fit but looks great when shrunk.
This is the Chinaboard method Damon used.
Actually everything you need to know is in the picture I will attach. you need to solder the 3 wires you connected to the places on the china board marked in the picture. Again you can use hot glue as strain relief, by tacking the wires to the board.
Connecting the modded Berg 4L to the X-Base
You should have the Berg 4L modded with 3 wires coming from it, Power, Ground and PPM signal. Connecting the modded rx to the X-Base is simple, Just connect the 3 wires to the spots shown In the pictures.
Part 3. (only to be done after the rest of the parts are soldered and connected and you are ready to switch on fir the first time.)
Calibrating the X-base with the X-Control PC software.
1. load the PPM firmware version and the X-Base setting parameters to the X-base.
2. load the X-3d firmware and setting Parameter’s files into the X-3d.
3. Power up your quadrocopter, wait for yellow and Green LED on the X-Base.
4. Connect to the X-Base to the X-Control PC software, choose Receiver setup.
5. Now you can turn on your transmitter, wait about a minute.
6. Hit the auto calibration button and follow instructions.
When finished you should have a calibrated Receiver to your transmitter. Power up your quadrocopter and after turning on your tx yyou have to move the throttle all the way forward and all the way back, you should then have a solid Green LED and ready to fly.
Last edited by wister; Jul 12, 2007 at 02:29 AM.
|Jun 29, 2007, 08:36 AM|
Joined May 2003
WOW Great work. Now the German forum will be coming here to get all their answers. They will have to learn how to interpret Babblefish in an English to German translation,
|Jun 29, 2007, 10:26 AM|
Joined Jun 2003
First,very nice and fruitfull site.(sorry for my english).
My x-base is steel waiting for the act receiver in Germany. so i modify the berg receiver.
In the x-base downloads there is 3 files v.1.1 for the act receiver v.1.1 for the berg receiver,and i do not know what for is the x-base setting v.1.1
|Jun 29, 2007, 12:37 PM|
You need to load the 1.1 settings along with the version 1.1 PPM firmware for the X-Base if you are going to use the Berg 4L. Please make sure also, to use the X-Control 1.04 software.
For the X-3D, you will need to load firmware version 2.1 along with 1.1 settings! If you do not use the 1.1 settings, it doesn't fly very well. I made that mistake myself, and could hardly control it, even on the beginner level.
|Jun 29, 2007, 12:40 PM|
Message from the old World
As a guy from the older part of the word, I can tell you that wedo not need Bablefish for translation, at least a lot of us.
Better train yourself in reading German to catch up with technologie quicker!
|Jun 29, 2007, 04:42 PM|
Great work peeps . Since I don't have my BL ufo I will wait to vote.
BTW: who IS the competition UAVP and MikroKopter or other flying objects
|Jun 29, 2007, 08:14 PM|
Info from the UfoWiki (with my links added ):
* UAVP a.k.a. OpenSourceQuadrocopter (BL) http://www.uavp.de/
* Mikrokopter (BL) http://mikrocontroller.cco-ev.de/de_mk/einleitung.php
* (how do we call the Orion8-style swivel-rotor Multicopters?) (BL)
Closed source, commercial alternatives:
* DraganFlyer http://www.rctoys.com
* Intellicopter (BL) http://www.intellicopter.com/
* Keyence Engager http://hobby.keyence.co.jp/english/saucer.html
Professional commercial machines:
* Microdrones (BL) http://www.microdrones.com/
* AirRobot (BL) http://www.airrobot.com/
If you google, you can find more info ... there are probably more out there too ... google search found this ... http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q...er&btnG=Search
Last edited by tend2it; Jun 29, 2007 at 08:32 PM.
|Jun 29, 2007, 10:18 PM|
I received the Drill bits I ordered today so I wnet ahead and preped one of my beat up props to see how hard t is ging to be. It's not too easy to cut the center shaft off, can anyone recommend a good way to remove it?
I did run into a problem, Maybe. I have some shafts I ordered with the Q4 frame that are suposed to be 3mm, I drilled the prop out with a 3mm. The shaft will not fit in the 3mm hole I drilled.
Could be that the shaft is not 3mm, I do not have a micrometer. the bit may not be 3mm, or are we suposed to dril a slightly larger hole, or is the shaft on the motor really slightly smaller.
One thing it means for sure, we cannot prep the props till we get a motor. I will see if Jast knows.
|Jun 30, 2007, 06:26 AM|
You can try heavy duty wire cutters, Dremel w/cutting blade ,scroll saw (if you have one) or maybe even a sander w/heavy grit paper, hacksaw blade. Just some suggestions.
The drill bit should say what size it is on the bottom of the shaft (where it goes into the drill). Maybe you just need to reem it out alittle?
|Jun 30, 2007, 11:08 AM|
I cut a set with sharp wire snips. It was pretty easy, but I don't have the drill bits yet to comment on that.
|Jun 30, 2007, 01:59 PM|
simplified Berg 4L mod
Here is an alternative Berg 4L mod by Jimcking http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...&postcount=381
This mod will be a little heavier than the other mod ...
Last edited by tend2it; Jun 30, 2007 at 02:27 PM.
|Jun 30, 2007, 02:45 PM|
I did get the shaft through the prop after runnung the drill thrugh a few more tiimrs but it is very very tight, I asked about this and it is 3mm, but it is best to wait to have the motor.
On that mod, the main reason, other than weight, I didn't like having the open conductors, If the re ever came loose it could hit the traces, chip pins, CF or ALU frame etc... , plus it makes it a little smaller and we have so little room already.
|Category||Thread||Thread Starter||Forum||Replies||Last Post|
|Discussion||X Ufo 3d||idtoto2001||Coaxial Helicopters||2||Oct 11, 2007 01:41 AM|
|Discussion||Questions about X-UFO / X-3d / TX||TRiPLE 6||Coaxial Helicopters||2||Aug 27, 2007 10:13 AM|
|Discussion||Where can I ge tan X-3d mod for my x-ufo?||AustinTatious||Coaxial Helicopters||3||Aug 24, 2007 08:49 PM|
|Discussion||Silverlit X-UFO (w/X-3D Piezo Gyro Upgrade pt 2) and BL UFO Upgrade||tend2it||Multirotor Talk||1026||May 19, 2007 01:25 PM|
|Discussion||Silverlit X-UFO (w/X-3D Piezo Gyro Upgrade)||tend2it||Multirotor Talk||1024||Mar 30, 2007 11:50 PM|