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Old Nov 16, 2007, 07:47 AM
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bsoder's Avatar
Mesa, AZ
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So what if the land owner doesn't care, but you've written into the club charter that the club is electric-only?

I suppose if Joe wants to join along with enough of his glow friends, they can vote out the current leadership and change the charter...

Personally I think Joe should look for a field and club that's already in line with his interests.
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Old Nov 16, 2007, 08:08 AM
Proud member of LISF and ESL
LI, New York, USA
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In my opinion, if the land owner doesn't mind, then, if I were an officer of the club, I would put it to a vote of the membership. Hopefully Joe has come to the field and met some folks so they know him.

If the membership wants to expand the charter to include glow planes, fine. If not, then we help Joe find the right club.

Where I live there are lots of clubs so this is not an issue.
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Old Nov 16, 2007, 08:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aeajr
If the membership wants to expand the charter to include glow planes, fine. If not, then we help Joe find the right club.
Right - but it's up to the club as a whole, not "anyone gets to fly whatever they want because they're AMA members." Odds are the current members want to fly electrics... otherwise they probably wouldn't be members of an electric-only club.
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Old Nov 16, 2007, 09:06 AM
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Orange County, CA
Joined Aug 2004
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Now I know this one will drive our goor friend Mr. Platinum absolutely CRAZY...

What about clubs that restrict access to their fields to only certain people???? We have a local club, actually a couple of them, that only allow THEIR members access to THEIR fields. The nerve of them!!!!! They are AMA Chartered clubs and I feel that I should have, unrestricted access to their fields by virtue of that fact. Of course it goes without saying (so I will say it anyhow) that they also have no right to tell me what I can fly there.

The nerve of them!!!!!
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Old Nov 16, 2007, 09:33 AM
Proud member of LISF and ESL
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I don't know ANY clubs that just open their fields to unlimite access by anyone but members. In fact, that will likely violate field rules as many if not most clubs have safety regulations about who can fly and who can not.

Tests that must be passed, for example to fly solo.

In some cases, field controllers must be present or no one flies, member or not.

And, of courese many fields are locked and only members have keys.
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Old Nov 16, 2007, 09:54 AM
I'm all about that bass
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United States, IN, Indianapolis
Joined Feb 2004
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Most clubs have a guest policy, so that a person can "try out the club" before joining. Something like 4 or 5 flying sessions with the club. And many clubs are happy to have out of area guests. Like if a person is on a business trip, you can sure come fly with the Louisville Soaring Society.

Some clubs have limits on membership or types of people that are allowed to join the club. For example, I read the district reports in Model Aviation, and noticed a club in Hawaii that had a small write up had a limit that 80% or some such of the membership had to be active duty military, current military employees, or past military. I initially thought that was kind of strange but then when I read further apparently they fly on military property and that was part of the agreement with the land managers.

Ryan
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Old Nov 16, 2007, 10:28 AM
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Orange County, CA
Joined Aug 2004
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This is terrible. You mean to tell me that not only do many clubs tell their members what kinds of aircraft may be flown at the club field but that many of these same clubs actually restrict access to the club field to their membership only???

But I am a AMA member. That should give me free and unrestricted access at all times to all AMA chartered clubs (and their club flying sites) to fly whatever kind of airplane I want to fly.

This IS America after all, is it not?? How dare anyone try to tell me what I can do and when!! The AMA and their minions at the club level are starting to sound like a bunch of commie-socialist-islamo-fascist sympathizers!!!

The nerve!!!!!!!!!
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Old Nov 16, 2007, 11:19 AM
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Mesa, AZ
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In Soviet Russia, Airplane Flies You!
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Old Nov 16, 2007, 12:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silent-AV8R
This is terrible. You mean to tell me that not only do many clubs tell their members what kinds of aircraft may be flown at the club field but that many of these same clubs actually restrict access to the club field to their membership only???

But I am a AMA member. That should give me free and unrestricted access at all times to all AMA chartered clubs (and their club flying sites) to fly whatever kind of airplane I want to fly.

This IS America after all, is it not?? How dare anyone try to tell me what I can do and when!! The AMA and their minions at the club level are starting to sound like a bunch of commie-socialist-islamo-fascist sympathizers!!!

The nerve!!!!!!!!!
This is America. If you are an american, you can take a test to get a license to drive a car. ( you mean anyone can't drive a car if they want?)

You can drive that car on certain roads, at certain speeds in a certian manner. And, in fact those rules vary to some degree by state. Driving is a privledge, not a right and you have to follow the rules if you want to enjoy that privledge. And if you are bad, we have people to deal with you, take away your license and perhaps your freedom too. After all, this is America!

Back to clubs.

You are a member of the AMA, not the club. Members pay dues for the privledge of joining the club. For their dues, they enjoy certain privledges. You did not pay the dues, so you don't have those privledges.

The club exists for the benefit of the club members, not the AMA. If you were not clear on that, I hope you are now.

And your statement about restrictions is a bit ... off.

Clubs form around common interestes. People who do not share those interests would have no reason to join those clubs. The restrictions are set by the members, so it is not the club who tells the members what to do, it is the members who set the rules for the club. See, how it works? Kinda like how America country runs.

And none of the clubs that I know of, are formed specificaly so anyone with an AMA card can come and do whatever they please whenever they want. Sorry, just don't know of any like that. Maybe you should start one.

Non club members are guests and must comply with guest policies and practices. And just like any guest anywhere, you follow the local rules or you will not be welcomed. That applies to our club, my home or ...... you understand.

If you find that offensive then your had some lessons missed in your up-bringing. Guests are guests and should act like guests.

If you can find a contrdiction to what I have stated somehwere in the AMA rules, the AMA charter, the AMA club charter package or somewhere else, I would like to know about it.

If you don't like the arrangement then start your own national club, arrange your national flying fields and invite all your members to fly whatever they want, whenever they want, where ever they want. Of course they will have to pay the national dues in order to enjoy that privledge.

Got it?
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Old Nov 16, 2007, 12:40 PM
Sink Stinks
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Orange County, CA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bsoder
In Soviet Russia, Airplane Flies You!
Actually over there the tower controller tells you how to fly. You just move sticks. No Thinking!!!
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Old Nov 16, 2007, 01:22 PM
Idle up!
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USA, VT
Joined Nov 2004
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k.. obviously none of you have been reading..

I expressly agreed that the land owner, terrain, and local laws should be absolutely followed, maintained and respected.


The reality is.. the ammount of fields under such high regs is low! If there is a field that could fly other planes.. but doesnt because the field has a bunch of elitist exclusionaries.. who don't think flying exists outside of what they do. Then they should pay more $ for the PRIVLEDGE of having an exclusive field.. and the loss of potential AMA members.

Your all so dam wrapped up in what you want.. none of you can just agree that people should be able to have some freedom to choose their aircraft. What the hell is this? the socialist academy of model aviation?

I have read about 100 times now.. well if they don't "SHARE" interests..

guys.. come on! we all share the same interest.. all of us! We all love to fly! It should not matter if you fly pattern planes and I fly hotliners and helis.

Sending someone away just because you can't stand to see a different type plane in the air is selfish. A club should pay more for that selfishness.

Again.. we can bend scenario after scenario until you have found just the right one to justify having exclusivity.. I can do the same to my ends.

The common sense of this should be to try very hard to get more people in the air. To share the love of flying with other people.. but if you wanna continue the slow death rattle of the AMA.. by all means carry on!
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Old Nov 16, 2007, 02:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PLATINUM
k.. obviously none of you have been reading..

I expressly agreed that the land owner, terrain, and local laws should be absolutely followed, maintained and respected.
Seems you think every post is directed solely to you. They aren't.



Quote:
Originally Posted by PLATINUM
The reality is.. the ammount of fields under such high regs is low! If there is a field that could fly other planes.. but doesnt because the field has a bunch of elitist exclusionaries.. who don't think flying exists outside of what they do. Then they should pay more $ for the PRIVLEDGE of having an exclusive field.. and the loss of potential AMA members.
I see. You of coures have some basis for this generalization. Would you care to share it?

They do pay more for the privledge of having an exclusive field. It is called club dues. They agree with you.



Quote:
Originally Posted by PLATINUM
Your all so dam wrapped up in what you want.. none of you can just agree that people should be able to have some freedom to choose their aircraft. What the hell is this? the socialist academy of model aviation?
People do have that freedom. They can choose any aircraft they like. They are just not free to fly them where ever they want.



Quote:
Originally Posted by PLATINUM
I have read about 100 times now.. well if they don't "SHARE" interests..

guys.. come on! we all share the same interest.. all of us! We all love to fly! It should not matter if you fly pattern planes and I fly hotliners and helis.
You share my interest in flying Thermal Duration sailplanes in a quiet environment free of high speed and loud planes? I would never have known.



Quote:
Originally Posted by PLATINUM
Sending someone away just because you can't stand to see a different type plane in the air is selfish. A club should pay more for that selfishness.

Again.. we can bend scenario after scenario until you have found just the right one to justify having exclusivity.. I can do the same to my ends.
Club members do pay more for this privledge. It is called club dues. ( I heard that somewhere before. )




Quote:
Originally Posted by PLATINUM
The common sense of this should be to try very hard to get more people in the air. To share the love of flying with other people.. but if you wanna continue the slow death rattle of the AMA.. by all means carry on!
I agree. That is why we have so many new members in our club. Seems a lot share our interest in our form of flying. That is why our club prospers and why there are so many clubs in our area.

Of course none of this has anything to do with declining enrollment in the AMA. You can have a club and not be a member of the AMA. You can be a member of the AMA and not be a member of a club.
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Old Nov 16, 2007, 07:37 PM
Idle up!
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USA, VT
Joined Nov 2004
5,802 Posts
And how many have been turned away? How many guys and gals came to your club and wanted some help.. and ya just sent em packing over the years?

Can't imagine you played well with others when you were a kid..

I actually do share your interests in thermal planes.. in fact my next thermal is an Omega II.. not top of the line by any means.. but a fair bird that floats nicely


OMG..look out for that speedy plane while I am spec'd out.. it might hit me..

You don't pay any more dues than any other field on average I am sure about that. See.. I (like you) pay dues to the AMA.. which covers your field with insurance, all of our dues at the end of the year are donated to the farmer who owns the land. We spend for lawn mower gas, and a couple picnics.. bout it.. He usually gets about $1800.00

What you pay AMA for the charter is what I am talking about.. not your local field dues. Your charter should cost more than an open fields charter. It should be increased based on how many people fly exclusively. More people.. more dues goto AMA.

See I respect the fact that it isn't just the 45 guys at our field, but the 100k+ members of AMA who enable us to be insured. If any of them want to come to our field and fly a paper mache' fat lady they built from scratch. I will personally hand launch the dang thing.

What do you tell the guy who comes to your field.. sorry bro.. we don't fly that plane..
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Old Nov 16, 2007, 08:15 PM
Sink Stinks
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Orange County, CA
Joined Aug 2004
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Oddly at my glider club we hardly ever get a giant scale guy showing up and wanting to fly. At my power plane field we rarely see glider guys, they seem to go to the power fields. Same with my heli field. No planes, just helis. Guys with planes just don't show up much. Same at Torrey Pines slope site. Hardly ever see a heli guy there, just gliders, and never any electrics.

All are fields run by AMA Chartered clubs. It is almost spooky how guys with similar interests seem to seek out others with a common interest. Imagine how we could grow the hobby if this was not the case.

Even at the non-AMA informal flying sites around (yes there are a few) you tend to see common interest as the glue that sticks the pilots together.

Oh well.
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Old Nov 16, 2007, 08:45 PM
All posts Copyright '07
Joined Sep 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PLATINUM
What you pay AMA for the charter is what I am talking about.. not your local field dues. Your charter should cost more than an open fields charter. It should be increased based on how many people fly exclusively. More people.. more dues goto AMA.

See I respect the fact that it isn't just the 45 guys at our field, but the 100k+ members of AMA who enable us to be insured. If any of them want to come to our field and fly a paper mache' fat lady they built from scratch. I will personally hand launch the dang thing.

What do you tell the guy who comes to your field.. sorry bro.. we don't fly that plane..
I assume you mean the $30 you pay ANNUALLY for a club charter? I think that is the going rate. I went through the entire club charter kit and did not find a single reference that pertained to rules or stipulations about which planes could be flown. If you are that worried about the $30, send me an address and I'll mail you a check. Whoop-dee-doo.

There is an additional $60 that is specific to each club for an ACORD or similar - it is specific to each club. Generally the fee is administrative; not always, but generally. The reality of insurance, however, is that somebody is always subsidizing somebody else. The guy driving the Camry that never files a claim is subsidizing the guy who wraps his Corvette around a tree once a year. Insurance is a "pool-based, risk-spread" system at its core. Eventually, the higher risk individuals pay more. If anything, the MORE airplane types of planes that fly at a field the MORE the club should pay, as in theory there is more risk. Heck, I think an electric-only club should get a discount by your logic.

With respect to the "sorry bro..we don't" comment, the answer is "yes". If the field is designated for electrics-only, you can always point the guy to the appropriate field for his aircraft type. The world is full of rules and restrictions. I like to drive fast, but I know the city streets are not the place. By your logic, since I have car insurance I should be able to speed wherever I want; you would hate to violate my rights, I'm sure.

With all respect, you miss the point entirely. The reason the numbers at the AMA have fallen is that for many, the perception of the AMA is that it is a bunch of curmudgeony old men too busy with their slimers to help a newbie and his Slow Stick. The AMA touts the insurance as the primary reason to join. If anything, exclusive clubs should increase membership; individuals should be more inclined to join a club of like-minded flyers.

Cheers.
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