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Old Nov 11, 2007, 07:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PLATINUM
How so Aeajr? I mean its all in the air.. it all flys.. anything we put in the air could be a danger to someones life and or property. What is it specifically that would make you lose your field?
Lets see -

Noise levels of gas vs. electric, proximity of the field to homes, proximity of field to airport, etc, etc, etc. There are dozens of reasons a field may not be suited to a particular type of flying. For example, at Maloof (a very nice park in Albuquerque) the oldtimers still cringe when a SS shows up. Since it is a city park, there is little they can do about it. When I go to Maloof, it is usually to watch and learn, as I fly mostly small electrics.

Cheers.
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Old Nov 11, 2007, 10:34 PM
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USA, VT
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aeajr
Why should your interests negate the interests of every one else.

I understand if the property owner is the one making the call, or something that legally prevents a club from flying x type craft. You were not specific as to say YOUR field flew gliders, only that it may be A field somewhere that has them..etc.. could be the limits of text comms.. apologies for my half in it.

But if its just the clubs choice, I gotta disagree. Your own statement above is a 2 way street, why shouldn't someone be able to fly what they want (within the scope of the aforementioned reasons) There is allot to learn in every aspect of this hobby, being open to the possabilities where legally applicable helps everyone.

I fly allot of different aircraft.. hotliner, glider, 3d, scale, helis, foamies..I do not see any negation of anyones interests when you have different types of craft. What I find is that by flying different types, or even seeing someone fly different types of craft. I learn allot more than just limiting myself to one type of aircraft. Not saying that works for every single person.. but someone flying a 30% Gas Yak while I am flying a hotliner.. doesn't really get my panties in a wad. I watch them they watch me.. and it pretty much is like any other craft being aired.
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Old Nov 11, 2007, 11:05 PM
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Wilkes-Barre/Scranton, Pennsylvania, United States
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When a club is formed it usually is formed by a group of individuals who share a common interest. Since they pay the bills they should have the right to decide what type planes will be flown at their field. I would not want glow/gas planes flying at my electric only field and I'm quite sure a giant scale club might frown on a bunch of parkflyers on their field as well. I don't think a C/L club would like a bunch of fee flight planes landing in their circles nor would the free flight group enjoy a bunch of screaming C/L planes in the middle of their field.
Model aviation is a very diverse hobby with many differing interests many of which do not mix well.
To say that they can all exist together is absolute folly. There are far too many differences to allow heaping all models together.
Encouraging sport clubs to allow participation to all model types in their organizations is a fine idea and quite workable with some considerations. But that's where the line ends because specifictype clubs are exactly that--specific and as earlier stated as long as they pay the bills they have the right to set the rules.

BM
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Old Nov 12, 2007, 07:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PLATINUM
I fly allot of different aircraft.. hotliner, glider, 3d, scale, helis, foamies..I do not see any negation of anyones interests when you have different types of craft. What I find is that by flying different types, or even seeing someone fly different types of craft. I learn allot more than just limiting myself to one type of aircraft. Not saying that works for every single person.. but someone flying a 30% Gas Yak while I am flying a hotliner.. doesn't really get my panties in a wad. I watch them they watch me.. and it pretty much is like any other craft being aired.
In the case of someone like yourself with such a wide range of flying interests, your choice of club will be based on their comfort with diversity. Or, as would be common with someone with your broad interests, you might end up belonging to more than one club.

BDW, foamies is not a type of airplane, it describes a material. You can have almost anything made out of foam these days. The core of some of my glider wings are foam covered in glass, carbon and/or kevlar.

One area where I will agree with you has to do with power source. Electric is not a kind of plane or a style of flying either, it is a power source. A six pound Mustang is the same whether it has an electric motor or a glow motor. So I would not understand why a club would exclude a pilot and his planes simply because they are electric powered. There is no justification for that.

POSSIBLE JUSTIFICATONS FOR EXCLUDING

On the other hand, I can understand how people would exclude glow powered planes due to their louder operation and the use of liquid fuels. This has given rise to the electric only fields. It is often a condition of using the space, as electrics can be are quiet and there is no fuel to spill. We allow electrics at our field but they must be quiet. Things with high speed screaming props, like many flying wings, are not allowed for that reason. We have nothing against flying wings, but they must be relatively quiet.

Again, looking at our own field, ours is a nature preserve. No liquid fuels or internal combustion motors are allowed by the county.

I can also understand why a field that operates around a runway would be uncomfortable with sailplane winches or hi-starts. And remember, I am a sailplane pilot.

During a launch you have 300-600 feet of line extended into the air going up and coming down. If there is no retriver, the line can come down almost anywhere. While it is in the air, this can represent a flight hazard. They also present landing hazards if they cross the runway. And a winch sitting on the field anywhere near the runway, presents a hazard. In many cases it can be worked out, but I do see the power flyer's side of this arguement.

Runways are operated across the direction of the pilot. You take off and land left to right or right to left. A winch or hi-start is launched away from the pilot. The pilot has to be out in line with the launch path to operate them.

If you have a big field where the winch or hi-start can be kept away from the runway, you can avoid that conflict but you still have line in the air. It can be difficult to see, especially while flying a glow or gas plane at 50 to 200 mph. Hit that line and you take the plane down. Hit is while the glider is on launch and you potentially bring both planes down.

Note that, with a little common sense, these problems can be managed. However I can see the issue.

Of course you don't have this problem with electric launched gliders. In the case of these, they are like any other hand launched power plane. So there would be no reason to reject them just because they are gliders. In fact they usually operate above the typical power plane patterns.

In any case, this is just a bit of seeing both sides of the arguement.
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Old Nov 12, 2007, 01:57 PM
I'm all about that bass
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United States, IN, Indianapolis
Joined Feb 2004
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Plat,

I appreciate your enthusiasm on the AMA and all. But I don't think the AMA should force clubs to opperate one way or another way. I too don't like the idea of clubs excluding certian types of planes or certian types of flying, but I can see why they might in some circumstances and I am glad the AMA supports clubs making thier own way.

Ryan
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Old Nov 12, 2007, 04:05 PM
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USA, VT
Joined Nov 2004
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I don't think clubs should force pilots to fly elsewhere when they have a perfectly good field to share.

I don't give a rats sweet butt if you don't prefer my type of aircraft.. and you shouldn't care if I don't prefer yours. What we should be agreeing on is that we love to fly! And by turning people away.. you are denying them.. what YOU love to do. It is self serving.. and the person is being rejected out of those self serving ideals. Those ideals should be ended.. and we should move forward to 200frikin7

Bill.. if he joins.. he would be paying too! The US vs THEM mentality is pretty deep in your comments.. and it really harkens to what is making this organization fail miserably.

Local field policy should absolutely be open to all types of craft that are legally allowed and/or permit based on location. This should be something the regional VP and not the president of the local club should dictate.

Being an AMA member is a privledge.. not a right! and I really have a hard time with fields dictating what people can and can not fly. It is just hypocritical if there is no real reason for it.
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Old Nov 12, 2007, 04:24 PM
I'm all about that bass
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United States, IN, Indianapolis
Joined Feb 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PLATINUM
I don't think clubs should force pilots to fly elsewhere when they have a perfectly good field to share.

I don't give a rats sweet butt if you don't prefer my type of aircraft.. and you shouldn't care if I don't prefer yours. What we should be agreeing on is that we love to fly
I'm not sure you will find many cases where clubs are setting plane limits that don't have some kind of logical reason. Like in the case of Ed's club, they chose to focus on relativly low speed silent flight. I have flown at his club's field, and I could see why they might make the proactive choice to fly those kind of planes (aka, they are very protective of their field). Their field is basically a glider field, without a flight line or pits or anything like that. So, it would make sense not to fly 100 mph planes there. His club is not saying you can't fly your hotliner there, a hotliner is basically a glider after all, his club is just saying that flying it around 100 mph horizontally, under throttle, is not what they are about.

Ryan
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Old Nov 12, 2007, 04:38 PM
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Orange County, CA
Joined Aug 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PLATINUM
Local field policy should absolutely be open to all types of craft that are legally allowed and/or permit based on location. This should be something the regional VP and not the president of the local club should dictate.
This is just silly. Why should anyone EXCEPT the local club make the decision on what type of aircraft are allowed? Clubs know the restrictions of their site and also what type of planes the club flies. By your "reasoning" a District VP should be able to contact a free-flight club and "tell" them that they have to allow turbines to fly. As I said, that is just silly.

Quote:
Being an AMA member is a privledge.. not a right! and I really have a hard time with fields dictating what people can and can not fly. It is just hypocritical if there is no real reason for it.
You just contradicted yourself. It is indeed a privilege and not a right and therefore those who grant that privilege are free to restrict that as they see fit.
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Old Nov 12, 2007, 06:27 PM
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If your a member of AMA.. you should be able to goto any field (within the aforementioned limitations) and fly what ya want.

please note the word ..want.. because I am hearing allot about what you want and or don't want. Which to me is exclusionary..

I have no problem with a field that is limited by terrain.. or any reasonable limitation. But just because you WANT it.. ut uh.. sorry not good enough.

If you have a huge open field.. and you are dictating to other members or potential members what they can and can not fly. I would say you are a problem for the over all purpose of AMA, and that your field should pay extra dues for the fact that you WANT (not need, not laws, not saftey) to fly a single type of aircraft. Because in many situations you are probably turning away AMA members.

The VP can come.. talk to the property owner, review the local laws and gauge the saftey of the area and make a determination as to what is fair for members of AMA to limit at the field.

Your field is provided to you as a privledge by the AMA and the property owner. They dictate the fields privledges not the members. Just because a couple of guys got together to organize it, does not permit you to dictate the privledges that others who are also members of the same organization should and should not have.

I certianly did not contradict myself as you can clearly see.
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Old Nov 12, 2007, 06:46 PM
I'm all about that bass
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United States, IN, Indianapolis
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PLATINUM
.

If you have a huge open field.. and you are dictating to other members or potential members what they can and can not fly. I would say you are a problem for the over all purpose of AMA, and that your field should pay extra dues for the fact that you WANT (not need, not laws, not saftey) to fly a single type of aircraft. Because in many situations you are probably turning away AMA members.
In the interest of fair play.... Can you cite a real world example like you have stated above?

:-)
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Old Nov 12, 2007, 11:27 PM
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fair play?

I shouldn't have to explain any further, I think I was pretty clear. One only needs to look at the terrain limitations, understand the property owners wishes.. and then just follow AMA regs.

We could sit here for an infinity picking appart each field, which is a waste of time for you and I.. but would be a great task for a VP. It would get their lazy butts out to the fields in their district.

But it seems clear that some just WANT or FEEL they have the right to set their own rules for other AMA members because they are paying dues at a particular club. If any AMA member comes to our field, they just need to show us they are safe and are experienced with their aircraft. Noobs go through training with an officer of the club.

The heart of this subject to me is.. how many potential AMA members said to heck with it? and how many AMA members dropped their membership because of this sort of exclusivity?
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Old Nov 12, 2007, 11:32 PM
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dupe
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Old Nov 13, 2007, 12:51 AM
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Last edited by mongo; Dec 14, 2009 at 01:07 AM. Reason: spelling
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Old Nov 13, 2007, 07:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PLATINUM
If your a member of AMA.. you should be able to goto any field (within the aforementioned limitations) and fly what ya want.
Interesting. Where did you get this idea?

You won't see it in any AMA literature. You won't see it in any of the AMA safety rules.

So, where did you get this idea?
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Old Nov 13, 2007, 08:03 AM
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Here is your "Candy Gram!" Mongo.. which should also answer your question Aeajer.

Your field is granted a charter. That charter is a privledge.. you are not entitled to it, you do not own it.

ALL members of the entire org of AMA help provide each field the privledge of that charter.

So just because you happen to be a member of a club.. doesn't give you any more say than any other member of AMA who would like to join your club.
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