HobbyKing.com New Products Flash Sale
Reply
Thread Tools
Old Jun 28, 2007, 06:10 PM
Registered User
Honolulu
Joined Jul 2003
109 Posts
Discussion
What are your thoughts on Clubs banning certain types of flying?

In a recent MA DB commented on how we should not turn away modelers because we do not like the type of models they are flying.

I have also read the stories of certain clubs banning types of flying, turbine, 3D, Electric etc.

I agree with DB's article for the most part there is no place to ban types of flying that other modelers are involved in. Now there are certain times like burn bans, etc. that some aircraft like turbines should not fly.

I don't think that AMA should support clubs that ban certain types of aircraft that are "AMA legal"

What is a AMA member to do if they are a minority in the club and their type of flying gets banned?

I suppose we have been operating under the auspices that common sense is the limiting factor here and that Club officers will use prudence and good judgment administering their clubs. Unfortunately many times when these ban issues come up it seems that prejudice, jealousy and emotions dictate the thought process, and we loose members.

Im am president of Aloha State R/C club on the Island of Oahu and fortunately we don't have any of this happening here in our state that I have seen. With all the stories that I have read though, it seems like there are enough incidents of this happening to make it an issue.

Thank you for your time and Good Luck
Aero65 is offline Find More Posts by Aero65
Reply With Quote
Sign up now
to remove ads between posts
Old Jun 29, 2007, 08:53 AM
Registered User
Camillus, NY
Joined Sep 2004
128 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aero65
In a recent MA DB commented on how we should not turn away modelers because we do not like the type of models they are flying.

I have also read the stories of certain clubs banning types of flying, turbine, 3D, Electric etc.

I agree with DB's article for the most part there is no place to ban types of flying that other modelers are involved in. Now there are certain times like burn bans, etc. that some aircraft like turbines should not fly.

I don't think that AMA should support clubs that ban certain types of aircraft that are "AMA legal"

What is a AMA member to do if they are a minority in the club and their type of flying gets banned?

I suppose we have been operating under the auspices that common sense is the limiting factor here and that Club officers will use prudence and good judgment administering their clubs. Unfortunately many times when these ban issues come up it seems that prejudice, jealousy and emotions dictate the thought process, and we loose members.

Im am president of Aloha State R/C club on the Island of Oahu and fortunately we don't have any of this happening here in our state that I have seen. With all the stories that I have read though, it seems like there are enough incidents of this happening to make it an issue.

Thank you for your time and Good Luck
Hi Aero,
I pretty much agree with DB. The club I belong to operates like yours. We all fly whatever we want and there are no problems. The vast majority of the clubs in our district operate the same way; although there are a few that restrict some forms of modeling at their fields. I havenít seen a conflict like this, though, that canít be worked out if the club membership makes a bit of an effort.
Now, like everything else, there are exceptions to the rule. In our district there are clubs that are heli clubs, sailplane clubs, electric clubs, etc. And, of course there are controline clubs and free flight clubs. I donít see these groups as restricting membership but more formed to engage in a specific form of model aviation. And in some cases there are other issues that need to be considered. Like a club that might be electric only to solve a problem that they might otherwise have with their neighbors if, say, models with internal combustion engines were flown from that site.
Each circumstance is unique and should be addressed on an individual basis. But, like I said up top. In a generic sense I agree with Dave.
Dave
Dave Mathewson is offline Find More Posts by Dave Mathewson
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 30, 2007, 04:52 AM
Registered User
Honolulu
Joined Jul 2003
109 Posts
Thank you Dave

Im glad to hear that the vast majority are like that, and that I guess since news of this sort gets concentrated here it seems worse than it really is.

Thank you for Replying and good luck you have my vote

Duke C
Aero65 is offline Find More Posts by Aero65
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 30, 2007, 10:38 AM
Idle up!
PLATINUM's Avatar
USA, VT
Joined Nov 2004
5,802 Posts
Aero he said the vast majority in his district. He is not saying that most clubs are like this.
PLATINUM is offline Find More Posts by PLATINUM
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 30, 2007, 03:59 PM
Registered User
Wilkes-Barre/Scranton, Pennsylvania, United States
Joined Nov 2000
6,281 Posts
I would agree with DB "IF" the facility can support all types of AMA legal aircraft. But there are situations where this simply is not possible. I hold membership in a club that supports 2 fields. One field has no restrictions as to airplane type. It has a 600 X 75 foot grass runway. The second field has a 250 X 50 foot runway and is restricted to electric only. The feeling is field number 2 is too small for large models in addition to having a number of houses within a half mile of the field.

Another consideration is the club charter. There are clubs that are formed around sailplanes--others as Giant Scale clubs. There are control line and free flight clubs as well. I can't see how a club formed around a specific type of aircraft can deviate from what their charter defines that club to be. I wouldn't want R/C airplanes at a C/L club or glow/gas planes at an electric club.

Having said that--I firmly believe that a club formed as a sport flying club should allow all types of AMA legal airplanes at their facility IF their facility can support them

BM
BillM is offline Find More Posts by BillM
Reply With Quote
Old Jul 03, 2007, 03:05 PM
Suspended Account
scratchandbash's Avatar
Grove City PA basement/park
Joined Feb 2005
4,884 Posts
Discussion - What are your thoughts on Clubs banning certain types of flying?

Heck, I'd rather they just come straight out an ban them, than bias them. At least you'd really know where the club stands.

Bill
scratchandbash is offline Find More Posts by scratchandbash
Reply With Quote
Old Jul 04, 2007, 05:06 PM
Administrator
Jim T. Graham's Avatar
United States, TN, Nashville
Joined Mar 2002
11,401 Posts
This question has been answered. Thanks to Dave for taking time to field this question.
Jim T. Graham is online now Find More Posts by Jim T. Graham
Administrator
Reply With Quote
Old Nov 10, 2007, 03:23 PM
Proud member of LISF and ESL
LI, New York, USA
Joined Mar 2003
24,347 Posts
Our club operates under significant restrictions. Some are based on the requriements of the landlord and some are the result of the main type of flying we do, which is sailplanes/gliders.

We fly at a nature preserve. Our landlord, Nassau County, does not allow any fuel planes to be used at the field. We are also to maintain a quiet level.

As a result we fly pure gliders, electric gliders, hand launched gliders and small quite electric planes which are also known as parkflyers. No high speed planes and no loud planes.

Basically, if the neighbors are aware of us other then seeing our planes over the trees, we could end up losing the field.

We have no runway and we do not have a groomed grass runway, so all planes have to be hand launched.

As we are primarily a thermal duration glider club, low speed, non-aerobatic flight is the order of the day. We can have a dozen planes in the air at a time and there are no time restrictions on flights. The winch defines the field rather than a runway.

So, if you know anything about how glider fields operate, they work very differently from power fields that have runways.

We set up into the wind. Whereever the wind blows, that defines where the winch is set and the rest of the field operates around the winch.

So, as a glider field, we operately differently than other fields. If people want to fly fast planes, fuel planes or runway based planes, they join one of the 5 other clubs that operate within 45 minutes of our field.
aeajr is offline Find More Posts by aeajr
Reply With Quote
Old Nov 10, 2007, 05:54 PM
Sink Stinks
Silent-AV8R's Avatar
Orange County, CA
Joined Aug 2004
4,310 Posts
I think it is absolutely up to each club to determine what types of planes are flown. Some fields are gliders only, some are electric only, some are heli only, some ban helis, some ban turbines for various reasons, others have restrictions from the site owners. It is silly to think that every club/field everywhere can accommodate every type of modeling interest.

As long as the reason is not based in some illegal type of discrimination, like we don't allow purple planes, etc. then I see this as a local club issue.
Silent-AV8R is offline Find More Posts by Silent-AV8R
Last edited by Silent-AV8R; Nov 10, 2007 at 06:26 PM. Reason: Tie-poes
Reply With Quote
Old Nov 11, 2007, 01:13 AM
Idle up!
PLATINUM's Avatar
USA, VT
Joined Nov 2004
5,802 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Silent-AV8R
I think it is absolutely up to each club to determine what types of planes are flown. Some fields are gliders only, some are electric only, some are heli only, some ban helis, some ban turbines for various reasons, others have restrictions from the site owners. It is silly to think that every club/field everywhere can accommodate every type of modeling interest.

As long as the reason is not based in some illegal type of discrimination, like we don't allow purple planes, etc. then I see this as a local club issue.
My field flys everything.. gas, electric, helis, foamies, 30% 3d planes, scale, we even have rocketry.

The problem with not allowing people to fly what they want is that it hurts the organization as a whole. AMA has lost membership over the last 5 years.. I would attribute this type of exclusivity as part of the problem. I agree that fields should not be exclusive.. or at the very least they have to pay extra $ to the AMA for the members who might otherwise have joined.
PLATINUM is offline Find More Posts by PLATINUM
Reply With Quote
Old Nov 11, 2007, 06:02 AM
Proud member of LISF and ESL
LI, New York, USA
Joined Mar 2003
24,347 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by PLATINUM
My field flys everything.. gas, electric, helis, foamies, 30% 3d planes, scale, we even have rocketry.

The problem with not allowing people to fly what they want is that it hurts the organization as a whole. AMA has lost membership over the last 5 years.. I would attribute this type of exclusivity as part of the problem. I agree that fields should not be exclusive.. or at the very least they have to pay extra $ to the AMA for the members who might otherwise have joined.
The problem with allowing people to fly what they want is we would lose our field. That hurts all of our members.
aeajr is offline Find More Posts by aeajr
Reply With Quote
Old Nov 11, 2007, 10:31 AM
Idle up!
PLATINUM's Avatar
USA, VT
Joined Nov 2004
5,802 Posts
How so Aeajr? I mean its all in the air.. it all flys.. anything we put in the air could be a danger to someones life and or property. What is it specifically that would make you lose your field?
PLATINUM is offline Find More Posts by PLATINUM
Reply With Quote
Old Nov 11, 2007, 10:55 AM
Sink Stinks
Silent-AV8R's Avatar
Orange County, CA
Joined Aug 2004
4,310 Posts
You really are missing the point. We have two fields out here where the site owners have specifically told the clubs that turbines are not allowed. So in your world the club should go ahead and let anyone who wants to go ahead and fly a turbine and thus lose the field for everyone??

Another example. Costa Mesa has set up a model field in a City park. The City has specifically banned everything except unpowered gliders and electrics up to 10 pounds in weight. So again, in your world the modelers who use that field should ignore the City and do what they want and thus lose the field.

The City of Los Angeles has granted a club the right to use a park in San Pedro, but only for gliders and smaller electrics. Again, ignore the restriction and lose the field? And that is helping modeling??

I can go on for quite sometime citing example after example, but hopefully you are getting the idea.

I simply do not understand why it is a problem for you to understand that clubs often have to restrict the types of aircraft that use a field and it is entirely up to them how to do that. The argument that it hurts modeling is silly. Tell me how a use restricted field is not better than no field at all. Certainly in a perfect world all types of aircraft would be allowed to fly at every field on Earth. But that is simply not reality.
Silent-AV8R is offline Find More Posts by Silent-AV8R
Reply With Quote
Old Nov 11, 2007, 02:14 PM
All posts Copyright '07
Joined Sep 2004
1,004 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aero65
In a recent MA DB commented on how we should not turn away modelers because we do not like the type of models they are flying.

I have also read the stories of certain clubs banning types of flying, turbine, 3D, Electric etc.

I agree with DB's article for the most part there is no place to ban types of flying that other modelers are involved in. Now there are certain times like burn bans, etc. that some aircraft like turbines should not fly.

I don't think that AMA should support clubs that ban certain types of aircraft that are "AMA legal"

What is a AMA member to do if they are a minority in the club and their type of flying gets banned?
You are confusing the role of the AMA and the role of the club. The club is independent of the AMA, and sets its own rules. Not the other way around.

The AMA has no legal authority over what indivudually chartered clubs do; it simply has some guidelines that each club must follow.

From the AMA Clubkit:

1) Your group MUST consist of five (5) or more current AMA members;
2) At least three (3) of the members MUST be over 19 years of age;
3) Aminimum of three (3) current adult members (19 years or older) MUST be named as officers of the club, one (1) officer being Safety
Officer/Coordinator with access to E-mail;
4) Each and every club officer MUST be a current AMAmember.
5) Each and every member of the club who participates in club flying activities MUST [per the AMA Bylaws, Article III, Section
2.(b)] be an AMA member of Junior, Senior, Open, Affiliate, or Temporary 90-day category, or is a current Model Aeronautics
Association of Canada (MAAC) member. An Affiliate or MAAC member may not be an officer of the club.
6) The majority of club activities relates to the building and flying of model aircraft, and its organizational operation is on local (such as
city, town, village, county) versus regional or national level.
7) To charter for 2007, your club must have a current set of bylaws on file that are in compliance with the AMA minimum standard.
8) Provide latitude/longitude for flying site(s) regardless if additional insurance is required.
9) Safety officer must have access to E-mail.

To answer your question, I think each club has the right to ban whatever it deems necessary.
TrappedinNM is offline Find More Posts by TrappedinNM
Reply With Quote
Old Nov 11, 2007, 03:52 PM
Proud member of LISF and ESL
LI, New York, USA
Joined Mar 2003
24,347 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by PLATINUM
How so Aeajr? I mean its all in the air.. it all flys.. anything we put in the air could be a danger to someones life and or property. What is it specifically that would make you lose your field?
The land lord said we could fly gliders, electric gliders and small, quiet low speed electric airplanes. I don't know how much more clear I can be.

I believe the last two posts likewise should have answered your questions.

However, even if the landlord has not placed a restriction, the club has every right to do so. All clubs, are formed by people of a common interest. Their interest may not be your interest. That interest may be very specific in scope. Some clubs only fly scale models because that is what interests them. Some fly gliders. Some fly all kinds of planes.

Either give it a try or join another club, or start your own. Why should your interests negate the interests of every one else.

I started on electrics, and I was using 27 mhz equipment. A number of clubs would not accept electrics, at the time. Others would not accept 27 mhz radio systems. I just looked till I found one that accepted both. I was not interested in gliders AT ALL. But I joined to learn to fly and to fly may electric planes.

Four years, I am an officer of that club, I fly gliders 70% of the time and now fly gliders in competition. I LOVE gliders. But I was open to seeing what the rest of the club liked about gliders. Once I tried it, I liked it.

The AMA and the Club are not the same

As noted above, you seem to have confused the clubs with the AMA. They are not, have not been and never will be the same thing. The AMA does not have any clubs of its own, that I know about. Independent clubs may choose to charter with AMA based on the need for AMA services.

AMA can make requirements about safety and insurance and the like but the AMA can't force anyone to do anything beyond that. The only authority the AMA has over the clubs would be to threaten to pull their charter.

I am sure there are many clubs that are not AMA chartered.

In our case we fly gliders and low speed electrics. Occasionally we get people who want to fly high speed aerobatic planes. We don't allow them and the landloard doesn't want them. We direct them to other clubs in the area that fly high speed aerobatic planes.

As long as you make it clear, up front, what your club is about, what you do and don't fly, there should be no problem.
aeajr is offline Find More Posts by aeajr
Last edited by aeajr; Nov 11, 2007 at 04:04 PM.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Category Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Discussion What are your thoughts on the GeniusRC 490DX? PcKSnipE Mini Helis 24 Feb 01, 2009 12:30 PM
What are your thoughts on the parkzone p51 mustang peiviper Parkflyers 2 Aug 12, 2005 09:07 PM
Question What are everyones thoughts on this wireless Camera set up? bobsean Aerial Photography 6 Feb 15, 2005 09:33 PM
what are your thoughts on the front break from CNR? Lorduss Motorcycles 8 May 28, 2004 06:45 PM
Micro Servos for $ 8.95 each new in box What Are Your Thoughts? Synthetic Radios 21 Jan 13, 2004 05:15 AM