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Old Jul 03, 2007, 01:49 PM
Brit in Bahrain
Nigelp's Avatar
Bahrain
Joined Mar 2004
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Hi critterhunter,

To convert from INCHES to MILLIMETERS (mm) Multiply (X) by 25.4

To convert from MILLIMETERS to INCHES Divide (*) by 25.4

Easy isn't it !

So, your 36" wing is................36" x 25.4 = 914.4mm

or, your 914.4mm wing is 914.4mm * 25.4 = 36"

Nigel
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Old Jul 03, 2007, 03:20 PM
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Oak Ridge, TN
Joined Jun 2002
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Here are some pics of my progress so far. I'm using sturdyboard from Staples. I decided to use a "spline" down the middle of the fuse instead of the muti-layered block technique.

Any answers to my earlier question about the motor position adversely affecting 3D capabilties? I'm concerned about the thrust line being so low.
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Old Jul 03, 2007, 04:20 PM
Team FlightPower AUS
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Victoria, Australia
Joined Nov 2002
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Critterhunter
Now I understand. A little history may help.

quite a while ago now I posted in relation to SE5A and Fokker DR1 models that I designed for profile. There are a few threads here andthere (Search for WWI 3D Foamies and Baby Baron or Lil'Baron). Subsequent to this Tony65x65 posted a thread on his rendition of the SE5A.
I had been very happy with the performance of my SE5A although I hate seeing all the exposed wiring, battery etc so I modified my plans so that it had a full fuselage with all the messy bits concealed. All the surfaces remained the same, the only real change was to the fuselage and here I used a block construction method that I had already used sucessfully on other models. I did post a picture although I did not post the plans.

Subsequent to this Tony65x65 posted a thread on his own rendition of the real SE5A. Tony65x65 has done an excellent job and it is a great looking model that is very popular.


I gave my full fuselage plans to "Nigelp" so that he could do a build thread. Nigel had built a few of my other models and did an outstanding job and was happy to do the thread. This thread here is Nigel's build thread and the plans were posted as a download link.

In summary there are two threads with two separate models each of the same subject.

Model 1 by "Tony65x65"

Model 2 by "pmjass" with build thread by "Nigelp"

I hope this helps.

(I was a little worried that there was an error in my plans that I didn't know about.)

If you're building with foam and the subject is an SE5A then you can't be doing too much wrong. I'm sure the people in this thread will be happy to help out and admire your handiwork.


Quote:
Originally Posted by critterhunter
Here's the thread I got the single page outline print from that I used as my guide to measure and upsize. Hmmm....the other single page color print isn't on there that I can find. Where did I get that? Thought it was with it too? Maybe it's in this thread....Looking...
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Last edited by pmjass; Jul 10, 2007 at 04:24 PM.
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Old Jul 03, 2007, 04:34 PM
Team FlightPower AUS
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Victoria, Australia
Joined Nov 2002
629 Posts
Looks good bubbafusion. The centre crutch will be a quicker build. You will have to give the u/c mount and motor mount some thought. I'm very interested to see how you work it all out. Please keep posting pics.

This is not a model for the 3D purist. If set up appropriately it does have greater than 1:1 thrust:weight and very large control surfaces and a very low wing loading. It will hover, harrier, elevator, wall etc etc although some of these are a bit of stick work. It does not like being on its side, knife edge flying is possible although a lot of work. It could be described as an extremely agile sports model that slow flys like a pussycat.

To be honest I'm not sure how it would fly with the thrust line a little higher.
I'm hoping somebody a little more knowledgeable in this area can jump in.
(At times I wish I'd done aeronuatical engineering rather than electronic engineering.)

Peter


Quote:
Originally Posted by bubbafusion
Any answers to my earlier question about the motor position adversely affecting 3D capabilties? I'm concerned about the thrust line being so low.
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Old Jul 05, 2007, 07:04 PM
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Oak Ridge, TN
Joined Jun 2002
391 Posts
Nigel,

What's the size of your bamboo skewers? I found some at the store labeled "10-inch". They're about that long, but only about 3 mm diameter. Also, they're not entirely round, but flat on one side so they're only 2.5 mm across in that direction. Anyway, they look a lot smaller in diameter than what's on your plane.

Thanks
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Old Jul 06, 2007, 05:08 AM
Brit in Bahrain
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Bahrain
Joined Mar 2004
610 Posts
Hi bubbafusion,

There seem to be TWO sizes of barbeque skewers - one is 10" / 3mm nominal diameter, one is 11 1/2" / 3.5 mm nominal diameter - and gpw on this forum recently announced he had found 16" skewers (not sure what diameter) BUT - I didn't use barbeque skewers - I used BAMBOO CHOPSTICKS - usually available in the same sort of places !

(there is a photie of some in a packet on the thread above)

Good luck with your search,

Nigel
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Old Jul 06, 2007, 09:01 AM
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Nigel,

Thanks, I thought the photo looked like chopsticks, but I misread it as skewers.
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Old Jul 06, 2007, 09:13 AM
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Hey, thanks for the info everybody. Here's an update...

Started work on the SE5a. Cut out the wing spot on the bottom of the fuse and Gorilla Glued that on. After a little schooling from a friend on my first bipe build I decided to keep the wings flat and angle the tail for proper incidence.

Although this build is mostly scale, I did bring out the nose a bit and also made the flat belly portion where the wing goes long enough to line up for a cut for installing my 7" wide Clark-Y wings. As the front of the fuse and tail are tapered, I wanted to make darn sure that flat is flat (in relation to bottom and top fuse flat areas that I lined the motor up with) when cutting out the wing area.

Anyway, some way, some how I ended up with the trailing edge of the wing being lifted anyway. Luckily, since the glue was dry, it looks about right for what the wing would have been angled at if I did those instead of the tail. It is 1/4th inch high in the back based on my primative bubble level/ruler skills...which I think might be too much. Either way, if anybody with a good eye can look at the below picture of motor angle/body/wing and tell me what they think that'd be great. I've got the body propped to what the bubble says is level on top front of the fuse.

By the way, I still can't find that stinking color drawing on a single sheet of the SE5a! I wanted to blow that up and spray glue it to the plane. I guess it's H20 paint unless it pops up somewhere.
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Old Jul 06, 2007, 01:05 PM
Brit in Bahrain
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Bahrain
Joined Mar 2004
610 Posts
Hi critterhunter,

Looking at your photographs it 'looks' as if the motor is pointing slightly up - relative to the bottom wing - needs quite a bit more down (IMHO)

Re the 'bubble leveller' thingie - I don't even own one - I always just measure, above or below, using a line from the bottom of the tailplane to the nose as the 'datum line'.

With a clarke 'Y' airofoil section - when the flat bottom of the aerofoil is flat on the building board - you actually have about 3 degrees of positive incidence on the wings. I see you haven't fitted the tailplane yet - so you need to decide how much positive incidence you want on the wings when it is actually flying ( this is based on the 'rule of thumb' that a plane usually flies with the tailplane at 0 degrees - and that this dictates what the angle of incidence of the wings will be when it actually flies) So, - if the bottom of the tailplane is in the same plane (i.e. parallel with the flat bottom of the wing) you should have about 3 degrees positive incidence on the wings - about right - any more than that and it will probably 'balloon' upwards (i.e. climb like a homesick angel) every time you open the throttle to accelerate.

This can be 'offset' to some extent by giving the motor more 'downthrust' but IMHO I would not go any more than 3 degrees positive.

Maybe you erudite guys can chime in here if necessary ?

Anyway, hope this helps.

Nigel
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Old Jul 06, 2007, 02:05 PM
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Thanks for the input. Printed out to consider. My "bipe expert" friend is going to come over and sort through the thing for me. I must have cut the wing area out of the body wrong because it should have been a perfectly flat wing in relation to the motor/flat top portion of the fuse in front. Should have eyed it up before commiting to glue, but I was tired and ready for bed. The picture doesn't give an easy guide to the eye, since I've already got a little down/right dialed into the motor, but in relation to the wing of course things could be screwed up here. More on progress as it goes...
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Old Jul 07, 2007, 02:19 PM
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Oak Ridge, TN
Joined Jun 2002
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A bit of progress - mounted the motor. I bolted the motor mount to a piece of ply and glued the ply to the front of the fuse. To get 2 degrees right thrust, I sliced off very thin sections of the right front fuse until I had the correct angle. I determined the angle using a square as shown in the photo. After I glued on the piece of ply with motor, I covered the front with a piece of foam. This piece has hole in it for the prop shaft, bolt access, and cooling. I'll finish off this piece when I put on the top and bottom front fuse pieces.
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Old Jul 07, 2007, 02:52 PM
Brit in Bahrain
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Looks good !

Nigel
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Old Jul 08, 2007, 02:23 PM
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Got more work on the SE5a done. It turns out the wing is raised about 1/4" in the back but my friend said it won't be a problem so long as I make the proper motor and tail adjustments. Made the cabaens (sp?) and glued them onto the sides of the fuse. Leveled them out via sanding the top of the struts and using a bubble/ruler to get them flat in relation to the lower wing. Glued some balsa to the top of that and I'm ready to mount the top wing onto that in a few minutes here.
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Old Jul 08, 2007, 02:39 PM
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Joined Apr 2007
191 Posts
Very nice plane ,and 3d!
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Old Jul 09, 2007, 09:35 AM
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SE5a has it's wings now. Outter struts are still not on. I know the caibane (sp?) looks big but believe me, that IS scale. I checked the math several times. The angle of the camera has the top wing looking too far forward in the picture. Looks right in person (after I fixed a mistake with wing stagger once I made sure that was going to be proper scale this time around). Of course these wings should only be about 5.5" wide. At 7" it is going to look slightly different than scale. Tonight she gets the outter wing strusts, tail feathers, and then onto the electronics install.
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