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Old Aug 26, 2007, 11:28 AM
Aerodynamically challenged
3Deranged's Avatar
3D World, Florida
Joined May 2005
3,186 Posts
Don't leave that one in the truck on a hot day! I've had an EPP plane that wilted in my truck one sweltering day. Nice build with the EPP. Should make it more mistake proof. If you're getting around 185-200 watts/lb your flight perfomance should be fun. Good luck with the maiden!
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Old Aug 26, 2007, 01:08 PM
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kyalamikid's Avatar
Kyalami, South Africa
Joined Jun 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edfrules
Don't leave that one in the truck on a hot day! I've had an EPP plane that wilted in my truck one sweltering day. Nice build with the EPP. Should make it more mistake proof. If you're getting around 185-200 watts/lb your flight perfomance should be fun. Good luck with the maiden!
All my planes are EPP (except the Clik) to make sure they are recoverable. With the weight of this one though, I am not sure how well it will take knocks. Ah well, I will see in the next day or so.

I have 2 motors to try, one maxing out at 250 watts, the other 400 watts, I will start with the smaller one and see how I go....
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Old Aug 26, 2007, 01:16 PM
Aerodynamically challenged
3Deranged's Avatar
3D World, Florida
Joined May 2005
3,186 Posts
On this airframe more power is a good thing. So far on it looks like around a 2:1 thrust ratio works well. Good luck and have fun!

Quote:
Originally Posted by kyalamikid
All my planes are EPP (except the Clik) to make sure they are recoverable. With the weight of this one though, I am not sure how well it will take knocks. Ah well, I will see in the next day or so.

I have 2 motors to try, one maxing out at 250 watts, the other 400 watts, I will start with the smaller one and see how I go....
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Old Aug 26, 2007, 02:32 PM
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Kyalami, South Africa
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Cheers EDF... double posted somehow... 2 to 1 is pretty normal for 3D, so I'll see how it goes with the smaller motor first.
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Old Aug 31, 2007, 02:14 PM
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ToxicToast's Avatar
Roseville, CA
Joined Aug 2006
624 Posts
I've had about 4 absolutely delightful flights with my 44" Clik since repairing. Its turning heads at the fields and generating a lot of interest from small electric guys all the way to large slimers! I'm having to turn down offers to build and sell them because I simply do not have time to do this by hand. It took me a month of my spare time to be able to get my own ready. I think now that I have one build under my belt I could do it in two weeks of spare time but even then it can be costly given the depron aint cheap. I've drawn up some near laser ready plans but because of the size, it just isnt practical to try and develop a kit, assuming I went to David and set up a licensing deal and all that. I wish I could do it, believe me!

Seriously, what a phenomenal flight envelope. It flys slow and gracefully and yet remains incredibly aerobatic. It truly looks and acts like a large scale version of it's indoor lineage. My piloting skills are definitely growing with this plane, however I still have a ways to go before trying more radical freestyle moves. I still don't have the motor coordination to do a proper sustained torque roll and I don't feel comfortable maintaining a long hover really low to the ground but this plane is definitely a fantastic trainer for that.

Thanks again David and edf for the excellent design and inspiration! Thanks to Blake for showing what this plane can do in the right hands!
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Old Aug 31, 2007, 05:06 PM
Aerodynamically challenged
3Deranged's Avatar
3D World, Florida
Joined May 2005
3,186 Posts
Glad to see you got it patched up and flying again. It's not a torque rolling machine by any stretch of the imagination but it will do them if you give it full ailerons. I quess in F3P they only do one slow torque roll to end the routine and it does it well just not fast. Same with the roll rate, still has that typical foamie feel. Not enough inertia at the wingtips I quess. I'm working on that for the next version. Still a fun flyer. I'll be putting some grass stains on it this holiday weekend. Speaking of which, everybody have a fun and safe Labor Day weekend and hope you get some flying in!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ToxicToast
I've had about 4 absolutely delightful flights with my 44" Clik since repairing. Its turning heads at the fields and generating a lot of interest from small electric guys all the way to large slimers! I'm having to turn down offers to build and sell them because I simply do not have time to do this by hand. It took me a month of my spare time to be able to get my own ready. I think now that I have one build under my belt I could do it in two weeks of spare time but even then it can be costly given the depron aint cheap. I've drawn up some near laser ready plans but because of the size, it just isnt practical to try and develop a kit, assuming I went to David and set up a licensing deal and all that. I wish I could do it, believe me!

Seriously, what a phenomenal flight envelope. It flys slow and gracefully and yet remains incredibly aerobatic. It truly looks and acts like a large scale version of it's indoor lineage. My piloting skills are definitely growing with this plane, however I still have a ways to go before trying more radical freestyle moves. I still don't have the motor coordination to do a proper sustained torque roll and I don't feel comfortable maintaining a long hover really low to the ground but this plane is definitely a fantastic trainer for that.

Thanks again David and edf for the excellent design and inspiration! Thanks to Blake for showing what this plane can do in the right hands!
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Old Sep 01, 2007, 01:56 AM
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Annapolis, Maryland USA
Joined Feb 2001
2,450 Posts
Wow, surprised you're saying the roll rate is foamie like....on high rates mine does violent ratchets and the roll rate must approach 720 deg/sec. The only foamie I've found capable of this is the BYPYAK...in fact thats the main reason I've bought a BY...rock solid, FAST ratchets.
My guess is you dont have enough aileron travel, mine has 45 deg
My perception is the XL keeps several foamie traits but at near 3 pounds the mass and inertia is very significant. I've been caught out a few times when she ended up mushing out from shear weight...just like trying walls too slow causes it to skid belly first
I find the sizes' initial inertia allows me to run high rates on controls all the time...the inertia is like extra expo


Quote:
Originally Posted by edfrules
Glad to see you got it patched up and flying again. It's not a torque rolling machine by any stretch of the imagination but it will do them if you give it full ailerons. I quess in F3P they only do one slow torque roll to end the routine and it does it well just not fast. Same with the roll rate, still has that typical foamie feel. Not enough inertia at the wingtips I quess. I'm working on that for the next version. Still a fun flyer. I'll be putting some grass stains on it this holiday weekend. Speaking of which, everybody have a fun and safe Labor Day weekend and hope you get some flying in!
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Old Sep 01, 2007, 02:06 AM
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Annapolis, Maryland USA
Joined Feb 2001
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Got my 4mm CF now so the XL gets a new LG tomorrow, this plane is just too big to handle belly landing gracefully. My last flight the motor ejected upon landing (sure the mount screws were loose but why should that matter? hehe)...so its obvious the prop cant be depended on to miss the ground
I also finally got my 13x4E props, so I'll compare it but I bet the 14.5" Graupner spanks it badly...
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Old Sep 01, 2007, 12:14 PM
Aerodynamically challenged
3Deranged's Avatar
3D World, Florida
Joined May 2005
3,186 Posts
Mine has thicker surfaces and larger wingspan. I'm using about 45-50 deg of aileron travel. It's adequate but can be improved. Wind penetration at this weight it good. I would consider the weight just right. Even on windless days it still floats. Guess I'm used to my Reactor .46 too much. That's got a decent roll rate. Anyway that's all being addressed in the next version. There doesn't seem to be any landing issues with belly skidding. Got about 50 flights on it so far although a few have been grabbed out of hover. I broke off a lower SFG on landing once. (high grass) Other than that haven't seen the need for LG on this one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by crossup
Wow, surprised you're saying the roll rate is foamie like....on high rates mine does violent ratchets and the roll rate must approach 720 deg/sec. The only foamie I've found capable of this is the BYPYAK...in fact thats the main reason I've bought a BY...rock solid, FAST ratchets.
My guess is you dont have enough aileron travel, mine has 45 deg
My perception is the XL keeps several foamie traits but at near 3 pounds the mass and inertia is very significant. I've been caught out a few times when she ended up mushing out from shear weight...just like trying walls too slow causes it to skid belly first
I find the sizes' initial inertia allows me to run high rates on controls all the time...the inertia is like extra expo
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Old Sep 01, 2007, 06:17 PM
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crossup's Avatar
Annapolis, Maryland USA
Joined Feb 2001
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Your 52" wing span is longer than my 52" wingspan???
As far as landing goes...I imagine if you have actual grass to land on you might be good(you got killer grass in the vids)...here in the east we've had draught since spring...our club field, school yard and local park are all dead grass clumps...
problem is the tail hangs down such that at rest the plane is like 5 deg neg angle of attack. So when I land, the plane is level or nose high until the tail skid touches which forces that nose down...so the last 2-3" it slams down regardless of how smooth I land. Also unless you drag the tail you have to land fast as your landing flat.. a LG allows you to land 3 point, nose high
Of course its all relative, fast is
still pretty slow compared to glow planes etc


Quote:
Originally Posted by edfrules
Mine has thicker surfaces and larger wingspan. I'm using about 45-50 deg of aileron travel. It's adequate but can be improved. Wind penetration at this weight it good. I would consider the weight just right. Even on windless days it still floats. Guess I'm used to my Reactor .46 too much. That's got a decent roll rate. Anyway that's all being addressed in the next version. There doesn't seem to be any landing issues with belly skidding. Got about 50 flights on it so far although a few have been grabbed out of hover. I broke off a lower SFG on landing once. (high grass) Other than that haven't seen the need for LG on this one.
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Old Sep 01, 2007, 08:03 PM
Aerodynamically challenged
3Deranged's Avatar
3D World, Florida
Joined May 2005
3,186 Posts
Ah now you posted your wingspan. Didn't really know how big your wingspan was. Not sure how thick your material is but mines' kind of wide @ 1/2". That's the SFG's too. So a little draggy but works out OK. At any rate when my friend says he needs to see more roll rate, I have to agree. I also didn't want to put LG on this one as it was already heavy enough. It would need another couple of ply plates for some reinforcement plus gear/wheels. Next version planned I have some Fiberlite carbon gear laying around that needs a home. Also have a carbon tailwheel assembly that I'll throw on too. Hey I like to taxi as much as anyone else! Mine kind of bonks down but the way it's built it doesn't notice. I elevatored a landing in today pretty much vertical right next to me just for laughs and it worked great. Little bump on the throttle right before touchdown and it eased in. LOL

Quote:
Originally Posted by crossup
Your 52" wing span is longer than my 52" wingspan???
As far as landing goes...I imagine if you have actual grass to land on you might be good(you got killer grass in the vids)...here in the east we've had draught since spring...our club field, school yard and local park are all dead grass clumps...
problem is the tail hangs down such that at rest the plane is like 5 deg neg angle of attack. So when I land, the plane is level or nose high until the tail skid touches which forces that nose down...so the last 2-3" it slams down regardless of how smooth I land. Also unless you drag the tail you have to land fast as your landing flat.. a LG allows you to land 3 point, nose high
Of course its all relative, fast is
still pretty slow compared to glow planes etc
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Old Sep 01, 2007, 08:34 PM
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Annapolis, Maryland USA
Joined Feb 2001
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While I've posted the wingspan before, its a big thread or actually two counting the orginal Clik thread, I've gone back more than once to refresh my memory on your specs so its easy to miss things.
Anyway, your videos prove a LG is optional
In my case since I dont use a cantilever wing the LG is additional wing bracing and adds very little extra weight beyond that. My LG weights 20gs total and uses the reinforcements already there for the wing struts
I built mine out of laminated blue core so my fuse is 6mmx2 plus 2mm more for the 1mm skins or 14mm thick- the wing is single bluecore so its 8mm thick with the skins
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Old Sep 01, 2007, 09:22 PM
Aerodynamically challenged
3Deranged's Avatar
3D World, Florida
Joined May 2005
3,186 Posts
Yeah it's hard to judge how heavy a build will come out(until you build it!). But lessons learned. I've already picked up some valuable aerodynamic stuff playing around with this plane and will apply it to the next one for sure. Gotta love the design though. I've had lots of foamies but none quite impress me like this one. Maybe if we all gang up on rc-factory, they'll be forced to take our money and make the XL(XXL?).
Quote:
Originally Posted by crossup
While I've posted the wingspan before, its a big thread or actually two counting the orginal Clik thread, I've gone back more than once to refresh my memory on your specs so its easy to miss things.
Anyway, your videos prove a LG is optional
In my case since I dont use a cantilever wing the LG is additional wing bracing and adds very little extra weight beyond that. My LG weights 20gs total and uses the reinforcements already there for the wing struts
I built mine out of laminated blue core so my fuse is 6mmx2 plus 2mm more for the 1mm skins or 14mm thick- the wing is single bluecore so its 8mm thick with the skins
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Old Sep 03, 2007, 01:11 AM
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Annapolis, Maryland USA
Joined Feb 2001
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Got in 4 more packs flying time this evening
No doubt about it, my initial CG is too far forward...running my light packs about 2" back seems good
Threw in 10% down elevator for KE and its spot on to the right.. still off to the left
Torque rolling is almost automatic...reminds me of 40% IMAC plane as to TR rate....nice and unhurried
Also find I'm much happier with the small packs which puts me in the air at 38oz...
but then again I'm playin with the 3D end of her bag of tricks..
Only major problem I'm seeing is likely elevator flex...she does not track well in loops etc...I used CF but I guess not enough
New LG held up to the grass clumps even with a wheel slid up the LG leg .. thats what I'm talkin about!
More flights tomorrow and maybe I'll try the APC 13x4.. so far the Graupner seems to work really well and must be danged efficient to hover 39oz with barely 300w at half stick
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Old Sep 04, 2007, 10:06 PM
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Annapolis, Maryland USA
Joined Feb 2001
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Got another 4 pak of flights in this evening, FINALLY some calm air- amazing how much more flight time you get when you're not fighting wind
starting to really like this one now that shes getting dialed in
probably still needs the CG further back but she's TR pretty nice although anti TRs are still a bit rough but I did get in several multi-rev TRs
spent a lot of time KE and even did several KE loops that came off pretty well
finally got around to trying some cubans and other basics and she works quite well as a pattern ship even on high rates- think this will actually be a decent IMAC practice tool
at this rate she will probably be my fav foamie soon
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