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Old Aug 15, 2007, 06:30 AM
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Toxic,
I presume as to pull pull you know the basics about keeping aligned with the hinge line, equal arm lenght etc. I forgot to mention I'm using a Dubro 3D 2" HD servo arm on the Futaba 148 for rudder
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Old Aug 16, 2007, 06:18 AM
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Annapolis, Maryland USA
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Well the maiden did not go too well. Haven't figured out whats going on yet but my motor /ESC combo only makes it about half throttle before the ESC looses synch and starts making those ugly grinding noises. Changing timing hasn't helped- its a Dynam 30A which is somekinda Jeti knockoff
This is pretty odd as I have several dozen flights on that power system, however the last flight was a crash
I do think she had daylight under the wheels for a few seconds but then again I think the tail never got up
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Old Aug 16, 2007, 01:26 PM
Phlathead
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Roseville, CA
Joined Aug 2006
624 Posts
EEEsssh, that sucks. Hopefully not to banged up?

I've had a similar problem with a completely different motor. Worked fine in static testing but cut out and required re-arming on launch. Usually there wouldnt be enough air between the plane and the ground to get it done in time. It was a custom double hot wind with a small prop on a fast delta. Turns out, I experimented with programming on the ESC and found the right combo of soft start and slower timing and the problem has been gone ever since. Thank goodness the plane I made was a simple profile built just for testing the motor before it went into a more 'special' plane.

Not saying this will solve your prob but it sounds similar. How is the gague of the wire from the esc to the motor?
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Old Aug 16, 2007, 02:30 PM
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3D World, Florida
Joined May 2005
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Don't know whether it's your ESC or not since you've tried changing the timing. Sounds like the previous mishap has caused the shaft/bearings/aligment to throw the magnets out of whack. If your motor is toast you may want to give the Scorpion motors a look. They are reasonably priced and from the reports coming in they look like they're going to give the big motor makers a run for the money. I know someone who just got a motor and ESC for $130. That's a 750 watt system too on 4s! The best part is someone at Innov8tive Designs has done their homework on the motors and ESCs. High temp wire and better cooling arrangment. They're supposed to be fielding some larger motors and ESC's soon too. Oh, and they send them in a cool black tin with a yellow Scorpion logo on it. I'll be considering one for my next project. My 2 cents

Quote:
Originally Posted by crossup
Well the maiden did not go too well. Haven't figured out whats going on yet but my motor /ESC combo only makes it about half throttle before the ESC looses synch and starts making those ugly grinding noises. Changing timing hasn't helped- its a Dynam 30A which is somekinda Jeti knockoff
This is pretty odd as I have several dozen flights on that power system, however the last flight was a crash
I do think she had daylight under the wheels for a few seconds but then again I think the tail never got up
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Old Aug 16, 2007, 02:56 PM
Phlathead
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Roseville, CA
Joined Aug 2006
624 Posts
I'm going to be using a newly purchased 3008-32 scorpion for my Click 44". Gotta say, it is a well crafted motor even though I haven't even wired it yet for testing. It came in 3 days and is very well packaged.

Bench testing yours might reveal a damaged lead as well, which could account for why it grinds and stutters. Do a continuity test on the leads, they should all test OK looped back to each other. If a loose lead is getting jarred when throttled, it would sound like a stuttering chatter. Not sure if thats the prob but at least it is potential.

Also, if the shaft has too much play, it could push the stator against a magnet causing the grinding. I've had those little E clips come loose and cause enough play on the shaft to produce similar sounds like what you are experiencing.

Good luck.
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Old Aug 16, 2007, 06:06 PM
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Annapolis, Maryland USA
Joined Feb 2001
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okey, took her apart and found the problem: reversing the shaft puts the endbell setscrew on round shaft...while it seemed tight it spun under more than half throttle, which unloaded the motor causing the ESC to desynch so I put a proper flat spot there so the setscrew can bite and key it frlom turning
also found Dynam defaults to soft timing which is 20% less powerful and inappropriate for outrunners so I've changed that too-
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Old Aug 16, 2007, 07:46 PM
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Finally a maiden!
Mostly sucessful but a few not so good surprises
I think my 2100 15C pacs are fading... was about 4 minutes into the maiden, crusing around getting a feel and the pack just went flat. Admitted it was only at 12.1v to start but I was expecting more like 6-7 minutes.
So I had to land in grass clump city which coupled with the semi harrier approach neatly trimmed the landing gear off
Not a big surprise.. 3mm CF pulltrude tubing is rather prone to splitting
and I had intended to land only on the smooth
Flew another pack with pretty much the same result except this time I landed a while there was still a bit in the tank...but man this thing does NOT glide for deuky...even 45 deg is not steep enough to carry speed to quick flare
she plunked down like a ton of bricks but amazingly did not even scratch up the depron
Overall initial impression: flys a good deal faster than I wanted and is draggy enough it takes a lot of throttle to cruise
Hover seemed pretty sweet...oh did I mention I elected to fly despite a severely glitching elevator servo? YUP, but other than making hovering less than a automatic lock no real problem. Just a pain in the butt..
Rolls seemed axial and KE may have the least coupling of anything I've flown
Even with the glitchy servo , the one loop I did seemed very smooth and easy to make round.
The power thing is bothering me...wish my wattmeter went past 17amp...
might be time to transplant my Axi 2826 into it...
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Old Aug 16, 2007, 08:22 PM
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3D World, Florida
Joined May 2005
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I don't think I mentioned that it's not a glider, not what it's intended to do,it just flies on the prop. You'll notice a little better glide ratio with the SFG's on. That being said it does the nicest elevators of anything I've flown. That's what this plane is for- hanging on the prop and powering thru pattern moves (and harriering down with no power, nice!) It will glide you just have to nose down pick up some speed and it will glide in. If you cut the throttle in level flight,it will settle in. That's why I've got 500 watts on mine, foamies this big use nothing but power to fly around, there's no airfoil really to support lift. Come to think of it, I've never really had a flat foamie that would glide well, they all pretty much did the same thing. You have to keep in mind the original design is for indoor pattern, that's all power flying. But I like the fact that it will do both 3D and pattern if you want it to. This plane flies differently than other flatties I've flown, it doesn't take long to get used to it. Unfortunately I've had some airfoiled balsa planes that wouldn't fly this well and they were supposed to be great flyers if you believe advertising.

Check out the inverted elevator near the end of this video:
http://rcuvideos.com/item/MNWYQGZQDXHCK9RY
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Old Aug 16, 2007, 10:52 PM
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USA, OH, Newark
Joined Sep 2001
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That's pretty amazing edfrules. Looks like if hovers and harriers almost effortlesly. I got a Click last winter and haven't touched it yet, but I wan't to build a big one.

I know what you mean about some airfoiled planes not flying as well as some flatties. It doesn't make sense, but the proof is in the flying.
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Old Aug 16, 2007, 11:27 PM
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well its not like I dont fly and own a dozen foamies so I do some idea of their flight characteristics. I'd venture to guess that the SFGs make a big difference and will probably produce something like a glide. Trust me, right now, mine wont glide out of a
vertical dive. Mostly what I'm expecting out of this something more floaty
Power wise, I'm running 350+ watts when the batteries put out so Im at 150watt/pound which should 3D just fine...if not I have an AXI that can handle 600w. But then she will be heavy...
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Old Aug 17, 2007, 12:02 AM
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3D World, Florida
Joined May 2005
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What's your AUW? I thought mine was too heavy, but it's just about right. I quess the cubic wing loading comes more into play there. Especially when there's some wind. Haven't tried it without the SFG's, so you're going into the unknown there. Those leading edge extensions probably are key too.Helps delay the wing stall. And it is a power hog, but I generally find about 175-200 watts/lb. usually does the trick. I think I'm about 185+ right now. I've also got the vortex generators to drag around too so that eats up extra watts, but they seem to improve the slow speed control. I'll be putting back on some smaller VG's too, the larger ones work good but I think the overall flight envelope was better with lots of smaller ones.
Quote:
Originally Posted by crossup
well its not like I dont fly and own a dozen foamies so I do some idea of their flight characteristics. I'd venture to guess that the SFGs make a big difference and will probably produce something like a glide. Trust me, right now, mine wont glide out of a
vertical dive. Mostly what I'm expecting out of this something more floaty
Power wise, I'm running 350+ watts when the batteries put out so Im at 150watt/pound which should 3D just fine...if not I have an AXI that can handle 600w. But then she will be heavy...
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Old Aug 17, 2007, 12:13 AM
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3D World, Florida
Joined May 2005
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Yeah go figure. All those wonderful airfoil sections to choose from and a flat plate works great Someone thought I was filming in slo-mo but nothings' slowed down, it's all real time. It seems to just lock in and sit there nice and pretty in hovers and it's one of the easiest to harrier planes I've done. There is going to be some more development work on this planform , it's too much fun to ignore. David K. really nailed this one on the head. You'll love the F3P version, it's amazing how precise it is considering it's just some 3mm foam glued together. You've got the F3P version so just blow up the parts and viola!

[/Quote] Looks like it hovers and harriers effortlesly. I got a Click last winter and haven't touched it yet, but I wan't to build a big one.

I know what you mean about some airfoiled planes not flying as well as some flatties. It doesn't make sense, but the proof is in the flying.[/QUOTE]
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Old Aug 17, 2007, 06:18 AM
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Annapolis, Maryland USA
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EDF,
I've lost track of my AUW as my scales are limited to 500g, but I did weight the airframe and all the gear etc not on it. The airframe came in at 17.5 oz and the rest 16 oz so I should be around 35 oz. Thats right around what my EF Extra weighted and my Dualsky motor hauled it around fine but of course the EF is VERY slippery and flew on 1/3 throttle mostly so when I asked for vert the paks were willing. Flying at 1/2+ apparently is too much for my old 15C paks
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Old Aug 17, 2007, 09:32 AM
Team 3DHS
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San Antonio, TX
Joined Sep 2004
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Nice work. Keep the pics and build coming .
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Old Aug 17, 2007, 02:51 PM
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Joined Nov 2004
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Great thread lads !!!

Bought a Clik for the odd dead calm evening in the garden and it flies with amazing precision. Stops on roll are so positive compared to the shocks I have had and the stall is like a momentary dip on elevator. Then got to thinking what effect similar SFG's and dog-legs would have on a Flition Prodigy. Tested with the SFG's and it has transformed the model in all rolling manovers and knife edges loops etc. Dog-legs fitted... but untested yet.

Also have 2 sheets of 5-mm depron detined for a larger version as soon as time allows :-)

How did you lot scale up the parts... just measure and multiply???


Russ.
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