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Old Dec 02, 2009, 12:04 AM
Dance the skies...
Tom Frank's Avatar
United States, MA, Walpole
Joined Dec 2003
17,122 Posts
I fly mine (EPS foam version) light (1300 mAH 3S lipo) with 10x6 2 blade prop with only about 150 watts input (outrunner, no gearbox). Mine flies very scale like. Man... 300 watts would be a rocket!

Jimmy1159, do you have a tach to see what rpm you prop is turning at WOT, or a way to measure static thrust? Also, what size battery are you using? Do you have the EPS foam version or the EPO foam version... the latter foam is about 10% or so heavier. More weight (e.g a 2100 mAH 3S lipo vs my 1300, for example) is going to require more speed and power.
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Old Dec 02, 2009, 12:18 AM
swede
denial15's Avatar
United States, UT, Vineyard
Joined Aug 2005
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Wow, I wish I had known I didn't need that much, but I do like the speed.

Maybe I'll have to switch around props again and see what I can get. Maybe a 8x6x3 or 8x7x3 would do nicely.
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Old Dec 02, 2009, 01:17 PM
Registered User
Lexington, Ky
Joined Apr 2004
421 Posts
After two attempts to fly my P 40, I'm stumped. I'm using a 78 gr. BP 1100 kv motor and a 2150 Rhino battery mounted between the wing and fuse as far back as it can go. MAS 10 x 8 prop and 3 inch GP nylon spinner. No rudder, only stearable tail wheel. The planes turns to the left so badly right before ROG that it is very difficult to get airborn. In the air, the pane is almost uncontrolable. After the first attempt, I put enough right thrust on the motor that there is almost a 1/4 " gap between the spinner and cowl on the left side. That didn't help at all. I've considered going with the stock motor and stick mount, but I hate to have to us the stock spinner, which I don't think will last very very many flights or let me use the variety of props I used on my 190. How do I get this plane to fly?
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Old Dec 02, 2009, 01:50 PM
Long live the Nuge!!!
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South Central......Kansas
Joined Oct 2007
1,467 Posts
That is where rudder comes in Condre'. When I take off, I have to hold almost full right rudder to keep it straight, but once in the air it is no problem. Mine is set up with the stock brushless motor and I use turnigy 2200 batteries in the batt compartment. My prop is a MAS 10x6 2 blade and until I crashed (strong winds) my stock foam spinner held up just fine. Have you checked your landing gear? I know I had to do some tweaking on mine to get them straight. One wheel pointed out and check your tailwheel, make sure it is very secure and not turning or working loose inside the foam. I had that happen to me once and no ammount of right rudder kept me from going left on take off.

btw, I am curious as to why you put the battery between the wing and the fuse. You may have a CG issue with the battery there unless your motor makes the plane nose heavy.
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Old Dec 02, 2009, 05:16 PM
Jimmy
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United States, NJ, Highland Lakes
Joined Oct 2008
754 Posts
Hi Tom, I have the EPO 40, I think I settled of a Gforce 480 and 40amp ESC. running a 25C 2200 lipo. Tried this on the bench and was about 275 watts with a 10x7x3 blade. I think I will go with the 10x6x3. Really not looking for alot of speed just something a little more than scale. Using a outrunner motor with no gearbox how did you set up your trust angle. I am thinking 1%right and 1.5 to 2 down and see how that plays out. Thanks for the help. Jimmy
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Old Dec 02, 2009, 07:17 PM
Dance the skies...
Tom Frank's Avatar
United States, MA, Walpole
Joined Dec 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmy1159 View Post
Hi Tom, I have the EPO 40, I think I settled of a Gforce 480 and 40amp ESC. running a 25C 2200 lipo. Tried this on the bench and was about 275 watts with a 10x7x3 blade. I think I will go with the 10x6x3. Really not looking for alot of speed just something a little more than scale. Using a outrunner motor with no gearbox how did you set up your trust angle. I am thinking 1%right and 1.5 to 2 down and see how that plays out. Thanks for the help. Jimmy
Oh... looks like you opted not to use the geared motor then (this post gave info on that one).

And with that setup, you are definitely flying very heavy, then. I mounted my outrunner using a GWS stick mount frame. The stock stick slot has the built-in down right thrust... not sure how much exactly, but most GWS planes seem to have about 1 deg. down and right. The stock offset worked fine with my lower powered system. The motor you selected is too big for that mount, so you'll need to go to a firewall mount or some other stick arrangement. Personally, I think that is way too much motor for scale flying this plane, and you will likely have a nose heavy problem.

I hand launch with no LG, and I get just a slight left bank at launch, which quickly dampens out... nothing I need to correct for. But others with higher power have experienced a lot of left torque roll, particular if ROG with the gear.

Good luck with your set up!
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Old Dec 02, 2009, 10:47 PM
Your Pilot Ryan
ryramZ's Avatar
United States, IN, South Bend
Joined Nov 2008
3,206 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Condre' View Post
After two attempts to fly my P 40, I'm stumped. I'm using a 78 gr. BP 1100 kv motor and a 2150 Rhino battery mounted between the wing and fuse as far back as it can go. MAS 10 x 8 prop and 3 inch GP nylon spinner. No rudder, only stearable tail wheel. The planes turns to the left so badly right before ROG that it is very difficult to get airborn. In the air, the pane is almost uncontrolable. After the first attempt, I put enough right thrust on the motor that there is almost a 1/4 " gap between the spinner and cowl on the left side. That didn't help at all. I've considered going with the stock motor and stick mount, but I hate to have to us the stock spinner, which I don't think will last very very many flights or let me use the variety of props I used on my 190. How do I get this plane to fly?
sounds like your cg is way to back, mine is the heavier epo version with a 2 3/4" dubro spinner on the front of a 3530 480 class brushless with the 2100 thunder power lipo all the way forward, i may be more nose heavy than i need to be, but it flys good, and my elevator appears to be in a neutral position. my suggestion is to keep your motor set up, maybe give less or no right thrust, do give it down thrust, but not much. most importantly move your cg forward. I think that no matter what tweaking you do that you will have problems being tailheavy until you put your battery in the battery compartment. sorry to go on but i feel strongly about this. let us know how it goes.
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Old Dec 02, 2009, 10:57 PM
Your Pilot Ryan
ryramZ's Avatar
United States, IN, South Bend
Joined Nov 2008
3,206 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
Oh... looks like you opted not to use the geared motor then (this post gave info on that one).

And with that setup, you are definitely flying very heavy, then. I mounted my outrunner using a GWS stick mount frame. The stock stick slot has the built-in down right thrust... not sure how much exactly, but most GWS planes seem to have about 1 deg. down and right. The stock offset worked fine with my lower powered system. The motor you selected is too big for that mount, so you'll need to go to a firewall mount or some other stick arrangement. Personally, I think that is way too much motor for scale flying this plane, and you will likely have a nose heavy problem.

I hand launch with no LG, and I get just a slight left bank at launch, which quickly dampens out... nothing I need to correct for. But others with higher power have experienced a lot of left torque roll, particular if ROG with the gear.

Good luck with your set up!

Hey Tom,

Jimmy's is Epo. Do you still think that is too much motor?

Jimmy,

Check out http://www.headsuprc.com/servlet/the...lectric/Detail

this is the link to a 480 that can be firewalled or for use with the gws black plastic mount or the eflite eflm1915. with the gws mount you will have to space it out to clear the flange and to not pinch the wires, but works fine. also the shaft is awesome. it's a 480 class that will like 10 6 3 props.
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Old Dec 03, 2009, 12:12 AM
Dance the skies...
Tom Frank's Avatar
United States, MA, Walpole
Joined Dec 2003
17,122 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by ryramZ View Post
Hey Tom,

Jimmy's is Epo. Do you still think that is too much motor?
...
Well, I think he said he wasn't interested in a lot of speed, just scale performance. I think that motor will give him more than scale speed, but with the greater weight it will need it to fly well.

When I saw the motor weighs 100 gms with a 5mm shaft, that pretty much told the tale to me. I'd be concerned about it being too nose heavy, too... his motor weighs 1.4 oz. more than mine, which balances perfectly with the smaller motor, a 1300 mAh 3S lipo vs 2200 mAH, and no LG. The extra weight of the EPO being concentrated aft of the CG should compensate for some of that. Battery placement will be the main thing since it weighs about 2.5 oz. more than mine, and it will need to fly faster to carry all the extra weight. It won't float in for landings like mine with that wing loading, but I guess a scale-flying warbird shouldn't float in anyway :-).

FWIW, I never pick a motor based on "Watts per pound"... too misleading. I look at weight, thrust and amp draw with props I would use, then pick a good match match for battery size and weight necessary to give the performance I want. I always strive for 1:1 thrust to weight ratio on my scale/sport planes, higher on aerobatic planes.

That motor you linked, for example, has the virtually identical kV rating, approximately the same watt handling ability, yet weighs almost a full oz. less than the G-force outrunner. A better match, I think, but with 40 oz. of thrust (per the web page with 10x6 prop), it will still be a bit of a rocket rather than more scale like flyer.
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Last edited by Tom Frank; Dec 03, 2009 at 12:28 AM.
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Old Dec 03, 2009, 04:15 AM
Registered User
Los Angeles, CA
Joined Aug 2008
342 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Condre' View Post
After two attempts to fly my P 40, I'm stumped. I'm using a 78 gr. BP 1100 kv motor and a 2150 Rhino battery mounted between the wing and fuse as far back as it can go. MAS 10 x 8 prop and 3 inch GP nylon spinner. No rudder, only stearable tail wheel. The planes turns to the left so badly right before ROG that it is very difficult to get airborn. In the air, the pane is almost uncontrolable. After the first attempt, I put enough right thrust on the motor that there is almost a 1/4 " gap between the spinner and cowl on the left side. That didn't help at all. I've considered going with the stock motor and stick mount, but I hate to have to us the stock spinner, which I don't think will last very very many flights or let me use the variety of props I used on my 190. How do I get this plane to fly?
As other said, the cg maybe the culprit, it's better to fly nose heavy than tail heavy. At first, this plane was a challenge for me to fly but once you know the character you will love it, my first 2 maiden was uneventful until I got it on the 3rd time and I fell in love with this plane. Check the CG and you need good ground airspeed before you hit the elevator, good luck and keep us updated. Btw this is the motor I'm using, it's heavier and I still place my 2200mAh battery way forward inside the hatch. http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbycity/s...idproduct=4916
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Old Dec 03, 2009, 09:18 PM
Jimmy
Jimmy1159's Avatar
United States, NJ, Highland Lakes
Joined Oct 2008
754 Posts
Hey Guy Thanks for the input. I did some motor test tonite. gforce 480 plush 40 amp esc
25C 22000mah batt

the pz corair prop 9.5x7.5? 3 blade 290 watts with 30 aps
Mas 10x7 3 blade 305 watts with 32 amps
GWS 10x6 3 blade 240 watts wiht 23 amps (i think that the winner.)

The Motor with mount came in at 3.8 oz. .02 oz over the himax with gear box. Put everything on the scale and it came to 27oz without paint so I think I might be in the range of things.. Final assembly this weekend. Do you guys use the stock control horn for the Controls. Just gluing them on seems a little lite. Is anyone use the double plate horn? Hopefully get CG worked out and Maiden next week if the weather holds out.. Jimmy
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Old Dec 03, 2009, 11:40 PM
Registered User
Joined Nov 2009
11 Posts
Seems to me GWSprops and Caliber Hobby is the only sites that carry this GWS p40. But gwsprops only show the eps foam kit ($56)and caliber hobby have eps ($60) and epo ($70). I really don't know which side is more reliable to buy from. I would get an epo, but the cheapest is the gwsprops eps kit. What you guys think?
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Old Dec 04, 2009, 12:05 AM
swede
denial15's Avatar
United States, UT, Vineyard
Joined Aug 2005
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GWSProps. He can probably get you either one.
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Old Dec 04, 2009, 01:11 AM
Dance the skies...
Tom Frank's Avatar
United States, MA, Walpole
Joined Dec 2003
17,122 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmy1159 View Post
Hey Guy Thanks for the input. I did some motor test tonite. gforce 480 plush 40 amp esc
25C 22000mah batt

the pz corair prop 9.5x7.5? 3 blade 290 watts with 30 aps
Mas 10x7 3 blade 305 watts with 32 amps
GWS 10x6 3 blade 240 watts wiht 23 amps (i think that the winner.)

The Motor with mount came in at 3.8 oz. .02 oz over the himax with gear box. Put everything on the scale and it came to 27oz without paint so I think I might be in the range of things.. Final assembly this weekend. Do you guys use the stock control horn for the Controls. Just gluing them on seems a little lite. Is anyone use the double plate horn? Hopefully get CG worked out and Maiden next week if the weather holds out.. Jimmy
Yes, GWS HD/DD props are among the most efficient out there (MAS among the worst). You should have well over 40 oz. of thrust with that power input, so with 27 oz. flying weight you should be have unlimited vertical at WOT.
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Last edited by Tom Frank; Dec 04, 2009 at 01:16 AM.
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Old Dec 07, 2009, 02:39 PM
nsg
Registered User
Yardley, PA
Joined Sep 2006
4,122 Posts
I got mine (EPO, HP-3007-26, 250 wt max) to fly - on third attempt. The first two ended up in a roll and into the ground. The third one was close, but I did manage to fly it out, and after a lot of down elevator trim it flew fine. I got it trimmed, and now it launches and flies fine. I'm actually about to paint the insignia and such. I think I was stalling it at launch due to elevator being our of trim - and it wasn't that much out of trim.

On the positive side, it does pretty impressive snap rolls.

I suppose the shorter version of the above is,

- start with a 2-blade prop at about 200 wt total; launch at 120-140 wt. That plane doesn't have a lot of wing, so torque roll would be significant
- make sure your elevator is trimmed properly, a few mm up or down would make a lot of difference.
- once you trim it out, you can move to 3-blade props.
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