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Old Jun 13, 2007, 12:59 AM
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Miami Mike's Avatar
Miami Lakes, Florida, USA
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Some Japanese Wisdom for American Voters

I haven't been posting on this forum lately because I'm on a slope soaring vacation in Oregon this week. I'll be back, but meanwhile, I'd like to share an interesting bit of wisdom I picked up today from an exhibit at the Evergreen Aviation Museum:

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Old Jun 13, 2007, 01:30 AM
Reduce the drama...
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USA, OR, Damascus
Joined Apr 2004
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Ha!
There isn't any slope soaring in McMinville!
Did you catch the Rose Festival?
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Old Jun 13, 2007, 03:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miami Mike
I haven't been posting on this forum lately because I'm on a slope soaring vacation in Oregon this week. I'll be back, but meanwhile, I'd like to share an interesting bit of wisdom I picked up today from an exhibit at the Evergreen Aviation Museum:

Welcome to Oregon Mike.
Hope you enjoy your visit.
If you want to have a thrill let me know a bit ahead of time and I'll take you Kayaking down the Mackenzie River.
It's an easy float with nice big waves, (very cold and clean water)
Nothing more than class three at the end of the popular run. (Martin Rapids)
I've got about everything for a group of six or less. (Individual kayaks for adults. I have two IIK but they are big and I only like to paddle them with kids as passengers )
Looooeee, Rick, Eljimbo are you interested in a run? You;re local and probably will be coming to Boomers funfly.
Open offer to any visiting Oregon this summer on my days off here. Just let me know at least a month ahead to get it organized.
July is not a good time for me but I think the rest of the summer is good.
It's big and cold water so ya gotta know how to swim and react to whitewater. (easier than tipping over your bicycle)
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Old Jun 13, 2007, 06:18 AM
dusty bible = dirty life
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Oklahoma City OK USA Where fakts still exist even if they are ignored
Joined Aug 2000
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Congrats on the fun vacation but I really don't follow your post.

Guess the prime stratagist of the war in the Pacific wasn't such a brilliant man?

T
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Old Jun 13, 2007, 08:29 AM
Out of Time
United States, TX
Joined Jul 2003
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Wars are an inevitable part of mankind, brilliant or otherwise.

Therefore:

"A Brilliant Man Would Find a Way to WIN a War"

Unfortunately, George Bush has now joined every Democrat in the Congress and Senate. There are no brilliant men among the bunch.

HF
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Old Jun 13, 2007, 03:14 PM
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He knew and warned the Japanese Primeminister against attacking the USA. He knew he could not win.
Quote:
Yamamoto warned Prime Minister Fumimaro Konoe with a prescient statement to avoid war with the United States: "If I am told to fight... I shall run wild for the first six months... but I have utterly no confidence for the second or third year."
Highflight, Do you actually believe the rubbish you post?
A Brilliant man Would find a way to not to fight a war, A stupid man would start a war he could not win.
Maybe if the wars were being fought on your front lawn and it was your children being turned into "collateral damage" you would think differently?
No probably not.
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Old Jun 13, 2007, 03:27 PM
Trampling out the vintage
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The statement is excellent and worthy of repetition.

"Stupid" is not a good summary of the thought process that went into starting the Iraq fiasco. "Ignorant of history" and "arrogant" and "reckless" are a bit closer to the mark.

Wars are rarely started because one side is simply stupid. A wise leader knows that all wars have unintended consequences that are often adverse. When the stakes are high you avoid risk if at all possible. Stakes are very high in war. GWB forgot or ignored this equation.
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Old Jun 13, 2007, 03:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Smith
When the stakes are high you avoid risk if at all possible. Stakes are very high in war. GWB forgot or ignored this equation.
What leads you to believe that bush ever learned it?
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Old Jun 13, 2007, 04:26 PM
Out of Time
United States, TX
Joined Jul 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Punkie
He knew and warned the Japanese Primeminister against attacking the USA. He knew he could not win. Highflight, Do you actually believe the rubbish you post?
A Brilliant man Would find a way to not to fight a war, A stupid man would start a war he could not win.
Maybe if the wars were being fought on your front lawn and it was your children being turned into "collateral damage" you would think differently?
No probably not.
So, Roosevelt was "stupid" because he couldn't find a way to not fight WWII after the Japanese had already bombed Pearl Harbor and Hitler was marching through the rest of the free world?
That war was happening with or without the US joining in, and the consequences of us not joining that war would have been disastrous. (Sprechen ze deutch?)

War had already been declared on the US by BinLaden years before 911, and I guess Clinton's "brilliance" dictated that he simply ignore it... which he did, and left the mess for Bush.

What's stupid is denying that evil exists and thinking that goodness and brilliance alone will keep you out of a war.
Yes, I believe that.

HF
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Old Jun 13, 2007, 04:34 PM
fix-it-up chappie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Highflight
So, Roosevelt was "stupid" because he couldn't find a way to not fight WWII after the Japanese had already bombed Pearl Harbor and Hitler was marching through the rest of the free world?
That war was happening with or without the US joining in, and the consequences of us not joining that war would have been disastrous. (Sprechen ze deutch?)

War had already been declared on the US by BinLaden years before 911, and I guess Clinton's "brilliance" dictated that he simply ignore it... which he did, and left the mess for Bush.

What's stupid is denying that evil exists and thinking that goodness and brilliance alone will keep you out of a war.
Yes, I believe that.

HF
Oh I think it's fare to say Clinton wasn't any more brilliant in his decisions WRT Bin Laden, than Bush has been. But you have to admit, lobing a few guided missiles is a lot cheaper and easier to walk away from than an Iraqi invasion.

If we take both presidential responses as the opposite extremes, then somewhere towards the middle would probably have been the "better" response.

Of course we'll never really know.
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Old Jun 13, 2007, 04:40 PM
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Since war seems to be inevitable as HF pointed out, a better quote would be "A brilliant man will figure out how to win the war as quickly as possible with as little repercussions as possible."

Since we've been in Iraq as long as it took the US to gear up and win the entire WWII, we obviously DON'T have a brilliant man running the war.

Acknowledging that, we must concede defeat to the fact that Iraq isn't going to become a democratic beacon for the middle east and just get the heck out.
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Old Jun 13, 2007, 04:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thunder1
Since war seems to be inevitable as HF pointed out, a better quote would be "A brilliant man will figure out how to win the war as quickly as possible with as little repercussions as possible."

Since we've been in Iraq as long as it took the US to gear up and win the entire WWII, we obviously DON'T have a brilliant man running the war.

Acknowledging that, we must concede defeat to the fact that Iraq isn't going to become a democratic beacon for the middle east and just get the heck out.
bush's 'war' was never 'inevitable...other than the fact that an idiot like bush will inevitably make disastrous decisions if the American people are propagandized enough to allow it.

Bin Laden was and always has been a law enforcement matter...Afghanistan's support of him...despite their extreme weakness...WAS a matter for military action....but we've lost that one now too...and instead of a small group of religious fanatics supported by a bankrupt theocracy we now have a reborn and rejuvenated al Qaeda which is supported to one degree or another by most of the middle east....

But regardles of the tortured path you have taken to get there, you did, somehow, come to the correct conclusion.

The sooner we get out of Iraq, the less we lose.
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Old Jun 13, 2007, 05:27 PM
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without beating a dead horse, I think what Yamamoto meant was that a brilliant man will find a way to get what he wants without STARTING a war. If I remember right, the Japanese navy was not in favor of Pearl Harbor. The Army under Hidekei Tojo was.

Was it Otto Von Bismarck who said that "Diplomacy is war by other means"?

howell
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Old Jun 13, 2007, 05:30 PM
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College Park, MD
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gwinhh
without beating a dead horse, I think what Yamamoto meant was that a brilliant man will find a way to get what he wants without STARTING a war. If I remember right, the Japanese navy was not in favor of Pearl Harbor. The Army under Hidekei Tojo was.

Was it Otto Von Bismarck who said that "Diplomacy is war by other means"?

howell
Yeah, the same way that farting is pooping by other means. One leaves everyone with a bad smell and the other is a load of crap someone has to clean up;-)
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Old Jun 13, 2007, 05:33 PM
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HF I think the core of the concept is that the aggressor has a supernormal moral and political responsibility to shoulder in starting a war. It is worthy of a person's best efforts to avoid war and the ultimate test of a leader is, did they do everything they could to avoid war.

Roosevelt was not the aggressor. Despite his brialliance there was no way for him to avoid war.

GWB was the aggressor. Not only did he not devote adequate energy and intellect to avoiding war, he sought it out. History might forgive him if he had won. As the loser he will bear a curse on his presidency foreever.

This guy's accomplishments are starting and losing a war, running up gigantic deficits and no lasting meaninfgul other achivements. Fully, fairly and completely summed up in the epitah: Worst President Ever.
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