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Old Jun 13, 2007, 12:38 AM
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Build Off II: 100" Span Spruce Goose/ Hughes Hercules H-4

This is a design and build entry for the Multi Engine buildoff II. This thread will take us from the beginning of the idea, the location of online 3 views, all the way through the "surprise" maiden flight and champagne toasting at the conclusion. Buckle in and join us in the cockpit for a taste of what's to come:
EXPERIENCE THE HOWARD HUGHES "MAKE A SURPRISE" FLIGHT! CLICK HERE and turn the volume WAY UP!

For an overview and history of this amazing creation, visit this link:
http://www.theaviationzone.com/factsheets/hk1.asp

Like many, I'm sure, seaplanes fascinate me and flying them from a nice lake or river is so relaxing and fun. My goal is to create a 100" span version of the Hughes Hercules (aka Spruce Goose) in as true to scale fashion as I am able and contest time permits. In addition, I'd like to build this entirely in 3D cad prior to cutting or building anything to ensure proper parts fit and maximization of strength while minimizing weight. As a carpenter by trade, it's the "measure twice, cut once" axiom that inspires me in this way.

12/1 EDIT: JUMP AHEAD TO BUILD START BOTTOM PAGE 9

JUNE 2008 EDIT: SKIP AHEAD TO COMPLETION PHOTOS HERE
THE "MAKE A SURPRISE" MAY 3O, 2OO8 MAIDEN FLIGHT HERE

AUGUST 2008: THE WHISKEYTOWN LAKE FLIGHT VIDEO- A high resolution, wide format video taken from the shore on a beautiful summer's day.

June '07 start: I've started drawing and would love help on links and plans others may have or have come across. I'm drawing from the 3 views that I found online.

I've searched RC Groups and found some information, as well as this website of a modeler's efforts: http://web.telia.com/~u87708929/goose.htm
Any help or other information would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Mike MacFarland
TFCaeroplanes www.fly2build.com
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Last edited by scratchnhover; May 30, 2009 at 10:06 AM. Reason: Changed title to reference buildoff
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Old Jun 13, 2007, 12:53 AM
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Glenn Lewis(glewis) did a plans build with 8 n20's. let him know about this, I'm sure he'll help,he's a great guy and awesome scratch builder
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Old Jun 13, 2007, 01:13 AM
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Redding,California
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Thanks MustangAce. Glenn posted a pic of his in another forum that I saw and it is a beautiful plane that he built (along with many other beauties in his hangar)!
At this point I am thinking I am going to try to do a 1:32 scale (10' wingspan) model which will be significantly larger than Glenn's (48" span if I remember correctly) and will definitely want to hear from him and others on building and flying tips to possibly incorporate into the design!
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Old Jun 13, 2007, 01:24 AM
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For a bit of inspiration, check out Laddie's rendition -

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...72#post6711172

oc88(Bill)
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Old Jun 13, 2007, 12:06 PM
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I built my Hercules from enlarged Dumas plans and it is traditional stick and tissue style construction. A model the size you are considering could be constructed in a similar fashion, (like Ivanís seaplanes) to keep the weight under control. The Dumas kit will at least give you cross sections to work with. Power system cost is a major consideration when you need 8 motors. Geared GWS 400 size motors with four blade GWS props sounds about right and would keep the cost reasonable. My H-4 is in semi retirement because I canít find suitable replacement motors at a reasonable cost. I ainít paying 10 bucks each for the GWS packaged N-20 high voltage motors; when for $80 I can build 2 new planes! The N-20ís I have are the low voltage version and wonít last more than a few minutes the way Iím punishing them. I could replace the N-20ís with ďIPSĒ motors but those are 10 bucks each also. My Hercules did fly at about 40 watts/pound but it just didnít have enough pitch speed and was always just above stall. 50W/lb would have been better but the motors canít take it. Batteries to power the beast are the other large cost point at the size you are considering. Looking at Laddieís H4, he is running a bit over 800W on speed 400s at a span of 86Ē. His high voltage battery and series/ parallel motor connection keeps the current reasonable at that power level. Maybe you could ask Vintage1 for his opinion on a power system configuration.

-Glenn-
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Old Jun 13, 2007, 01:57 PM
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Hi Mike, I met a guy who helped build the models for the Aviator film...Maybe he has some good input!
Scott
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Old Jun 13, 2007, 08:47 PM
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Coot-
Thank you for the inspiration link! It is inspiring!

Glenn,
Thanks for the info. I will need to nail down a weight and size then I will ask Mr. Vintage if he would be so kind as to lend some professional assistance in the proper selections. I am realizing that the price is going to exponentially climb as I dream of the larger sizes. But with larger sizes seems to come the "wow" factor. Who's to say that nights at Ronald's flippin burgers isn't worth that moment the behemoth breaks the bonds of surface tension and floats into the less viscous fluid above?

Scott,
Are you kidding me? You know one of those guys? How cool Hope he signs up and posts some pics!!!! Would love to see H-1 and Hk-1 pics & info.

Mike
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Old Jun 14, 2007, 06:03 AM
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Scratchnhover ... have you found the Data sticky in Free plans and Links thread in Waterplanes? http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...t=448080&pp=15
Look on page 3, Leviathans. The other thread and plan to look at for this one is the s400dd in the wish list............ designed by Robert Andrew........ it was the basis for Tony N's 15ft geared s600 powered version.

Electric- Brushed electric is the way to go if you want to keep your sanity and wallet on a project like this. Keep it light and floaty and all those motors whirring will do the rest.
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Old Jun 14, 2007, 06:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scratchnhover
Coot-
Thank you for the inspiration link! It is inspiring!

Glenn,
Thanks for the info. I will need to nail down a weight and size then I will ask Mr. Vintage if he would be so kind as to lend some professional assistance in the proper selections. I am realizing that the price is going to exponentially climb as I dream of the larger sizes. But with larger sizes seems to come the "wow" factor. Who's to say that nights at Ronald's flippin burgers isn't worth that moment the behemoth breaks the bonds of surface tension and floats into the less viscous fluid above?

Scott,
Are you kidding me? You know one of those guys? How cool Hope he signs up and posts some pics!!!! Would love to see H-1 and Hk-1 pics & info.

Mike
Not sure its going to be THAT expensive..Ive been dreaming up a 4 engined biplane..sort of 70" span that looks OK for 4xspeed 400. I would think that 8x speed 400 might well get that sort of plane in the air, or if all else fails, 8x speed 480/long can.

That's a total input power of a kilowatt or so. Should fly a 100" plane OK.

Use a pair of 50A speed controllers one on each side maybe..for water steering on the throttles..2x3s packs of around 5000mAh each..
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Old Jun 14, 2007, 07:49 AM
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Yup .....correctly geared and propped 4-6 x S400 /480s will ROW and pull along a 100-120" plane if its light like Ivans Mars,Solent etc.and the S Goose is a lot less bulky than those and has two or 4 more motors. Check out Ivan Pettigrew's pages and the Ivan builds to give you a feel to whats possible and keeping it light.
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Old Jun 14, 2007, 12:19 PM
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just found this nice video of a 4 meter (157'') Spruce Goose:
http://www.rcmovie.net/view_video.ph...0a23d6b02d9b0d
maybe this will give you some 'extra motivation'.
Bernd
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Old Jun 14, 2007, 01:00 PM
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Mike,

Here's a nice bit of inspiration left over from the movie "The Aviator". Music's kinda cool also.

Inspiration

Tom
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Old Jun 14, 2007, 02:47 PM
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Nice movie! The model seems to be extremely light!
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Old Jun 14, 2007, 08:49 PM
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Airboat-
Thanks for the waterplanes sticky link. I agree with you and Vint that the brushed motor option on an 8 motor plane is the best route to take in terms of cost and pure number of components= much less cost and complexity.
I would like to use the Vario prop 4 blades to dial the load in and save on trying to find a possibly impossible propeller size/pitch combo. Also, they complete the cool factor. (At a price! )
Vint- Your power system sounds right to me. I would lean toward your recommendation of the 480's also for a comfortable margin after seeing how well Ivan's large Solent flew at Chilliwack this year (Luke's thread).
Bernd- Thanks for the cool video with onboard camera. That touchdown from the wing camera onto the water was one of the best moments! That Hercules could have been flown a bit more "scale Like" and almost looked like he landed it downwind on the first landing shown. Yes, I agree with Pdawg that it does look very light!
Catranch- Aviator movie is VERY cool- would LOVE to have one that size but don't have a hollywood budget here! VERY COOL!
Thanks guys, I'm off to read some Ivan Pettigrew pages!
Mike
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Old Jun 16, 2007, 03:47 PM
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Design progress

3 views are basically completed at this point. I scaled the size to a 100" wingspan in hopes that this size will be within the contest perameters for maximum size. Currently that seems to be where we are headed. Even at this size, the props scale to about 5-1/4". I'd like to use 6.2" Vario x 4 scale props and will design for that as much as possible. I may have to settle for the 5.6" speed type though.
Mike
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