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Old Jun 09, 2007, 07:28 AM
Registered User
Orlando, Fl.
Joined Sep 2006
55 Posts
Question
CN12-RXC vs. CN12-RLC

I posted this at the end of another thread, and may not get a response there.

Is there a way to distinguish the CN12-RXC from the CN12-RLC? Does the color of the end caps distinguish which motor it is?

Are there any other identifying marks on the motors?

orlbuzz
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Old Jun 09, 2007, 10:14 AM
Registered User
Taipei, Taiwan
Joined Oct 2005
4,690 Posts
Orlbuzz,

These links state the differences between these two motors, they look the same but RLC one works well at lower volts, while RXC one works well at higher volts.
http://www.gwsus.com/english/product/MOTOR/MOTOR.HTM
http://www.gwsus.com/english/product...stem/edf50.htm
http://www.gwsus.com/english/product...system/lps.htm

Hope these would be helpful.

Chen
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Old Jun 09, 2007, 11:20 AM
Registered User
Orlando, Fl.
Joined Sep 2006
55 Posts
Thank You,

I have seen those links. I was hoping there was a way to tell the difference by appearance alone. A lot of us are using the CN12-RXC as a direct drive tail motor with the Blade CP/CPP.

Some have had a problem with the motor burning out after minutes or even seconds of use. I suspect they are getting the CN12-RLC by mistake. I have had good success with the CN12-RXC.

orlbuzz
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Old Jun 09, 2007, 09:08 PM
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Taipei, Taiwan
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I'm afraid that they all look like each other. Just order "EDP-50XC" with your LHS then you'll have the exact CN12-RXC.

Chen
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Old Jun 10, 2007, 10:52 AM
Registered User
Orlando, Fl.
Joined Sep 2006
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Thank You Chen,

Now I'm wondering if the motor for the Axe CP is the same motor! It looks identical.

orlbuzz
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Old Jun 14, 2007, 10:06 PM
Flights leave daily!
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Virginia
Joined Oct 2002
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Well I own a LHS and have always gotten the edp50xc's with a Grey endbell cap, but the last (3) have came in with a Black endcap! I was always told, they should have the Grey endcap or they aren't right! GWS, and comments on this?
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Old Jun 14, 2007, 10:39 PM
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Taipei, Taiwan
Joined Oct 2005
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The Black one came with brass brushes, while the Grey one was with carbon brushes. The black one would be slightly more powerful than the grey one. The grey one has more longevity. Well, if I've been told correctly, the black
one would be a little cheaper.

EditL: Sorry, I've been told wrongly after looking into more records internally in GWS. The correct informations are,

The newer EDP-50 motor (CN12) comes with shiny metal can with two holes and black end, it's with carbon brushes,
while the grey end one is with brass brushes. They are all in same price, but with different windings on their coils.

The old EDP-50 motor (CN12) came with grey metal can and grey end, if black marks shown on the can, then it's carbon brushes. If red marks shown on the can, then it's
brass brushes.
If the old grey can motor came with black end and black marks, then it's with carbon brushes. While the grey end one and red marks, it's brass brushes. Their windings on coils were different, but they were in same price.

Hope these would be clearer.

Chen
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Old Jun 15, 2007, 09:22 AM
Flights leave daily!
AirMicro's Avatar
Virginia
Joined Oct 2002
749 Posts
OK, kinda confusing, but anyways, if all my new ones have the shiney can, black endbell, does this mean they last as long as all the older ones I've used and sold with the grey endbells? They were all 50xc's!

I know awhile back, if you didn't get the 50xc with grey endbell one, it would NOT last on 3s lipo for tail. The grey ones do! If its something new now, and they are just as good and will handle the same voltage, then thats great, especially since they now have the vents.

I guess the main question here is: Will the NEW, vented, black endbell 50xc handle the same volts and last as long as the older grey version? Thanks for replying so far and hope you will answer this for us.
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Old Jun 16, 2007, 02:37 AM
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Taipei, Taiwan
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The new shiny (stainless kind), vented, black endbell 50XC has been designed to be with the similar performance as the older grey version (with black numbers shown on its can). That's what I've been told so far. The new one seems to be ROHS compliant but needs to be further confirmed.

Be reminded that 50XC has not been tested by GWS to work at 11.1V (3S Lipo), check out this link, http://www.gwsus.com/english/product...stem/edp50.htm
I'm afraid applying 11.1V with it would be overvoltaged.

Chen
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Old Jun 16, 2007, 04:22 AM
0 Carbon fp? don't breed!
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The saga continues...

I wish GWS would sort out this confusing area some more.

Carbon brushes are the little square blocks with a curved edge to fit the motors comm. Not sure if they start out curved or require running in to give the brushes a burn free fit. If the carbon brushes coat up the come and partially short, the power output is much reduced and eventually the motor draws to many Amps, gets hot and does less and less useful work. On a micro heli the power waste can look like the main motor is weak, even if it is brushless.

Old style brass brushes are a row of leave springs that ride the comm. Haven't seen them in this style motor for years. They don't last long if pulsed with 11.1v PWM that tends to eat them quite quickly, eventually leading to brush gear failure and finally a motor with dead spots etc.

This is the bit that concerned me. Now we are possibly informed that there are two type of CN12's with different motor winds? Sharing the same names is not good for identification purposes . Hopefully this just meant CN12-RXC (high voltage ~11v) and CN12-RLC (lower voltage ~7v).

But this suggests not and more confusion: "New style CN12 shiny metal can with two holes and black end...but with different windings on their coils." When I and some friends received this motor for Cp2/BladeCP DD tail duty we noticed that the magnet strength life span seemed short when compared to a fresh motor and 3x20 mini prop finger push round test. The motor magnet coil cogging weakened and the power output was reduced and probably ran hotter. I didn't like them. And this thread suggests they may be a different coil wind...??? although the initial prop rpm and performance seemed very similar to me.

> Be reminded that 50XC has not been tested by GWS to work at 11.1V (3S Lipo), check out this link,
> http://www.gwsus.com/english/product...stem/edp50.htm
> I'm afraid applying 11.1V with it would be overvoltaged.

Yes running the CN12-RXC at 11.1v continuous with the 3x20 prop is not advisable and won't last long.
The other different GWS max voltage numbers for the CN12-RXC (eg. ducted fans etc.) are guide lines to flat out safe power usage with different specific pitch prop loads. And for the 3x20 mini prop 7.2v 1.66A (~12w) is the safer operating maximums.
Anyway, the traditional dull silver can grey end carbon brushed CN12-RXC (IPS/EDP/EDF) style motor and 3x20 mini prop has been used with some success for a DD tail motor upgrade for some popular micro heli's. Doing so has meant operating the motor above it's recommended specifications. The carbon brushes seem to handle being pulsed at the higher 11.1v voltage as long as its not continuous at high power. So a heavy heli (360g) with higher main rotor torque output gives the CN12-RXC a hard time (operating at 12w to 25w) and eventually coats the comm with the brush gear partially shorting etc. May last 2 mins or 2 months. But if the heli is lighter (~300g) the motor seems to survive longer (not always, may be brush break in related) and there is a greater margin of power reserve for tail yaw authority when needed at hover torque power loading. If the collective is held down, the main rotor torque output for the DD tail to counter rises and puts the CN12-RXC work load in the red again (above 12w). So go easy and the motor remains a usable option if you can buy the correct motor version.
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Old Jun 16, 2007, 07:18 AM
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Taipei, Taiwan
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Well, it seems that the older silver/grey can CN12-RXC (with grey end and "black numbers" shown on can) might be with more
longevity than the new shiny can one (with vented holes and black end).

The carbon brushes are normally square blocks rather than curved one. So applying "break-in" on new carbon brushed motor would be helpful. ie. Connecting a 1.2- 1.5V battery with the carbon brushed motor, then letting it be in idle speed under water for more than 30 minutes.

Chen
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Old Jun 16, 2007, 07:21 AM
BeeZaur 480
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Parkville Mo.
Joined Dec 2004
5,522 Posts
I have 3 versions

I have the black endbell, the gray endbell and a white. The cheap one from BP hobbies looks different then the other 2 and has the less powerful magnets.

The gray endbell and black endbell have the stronger magnets like what they have been selling at tower latley. They both seem pretty strong to me but i havnt flown long so i cant tell how they perform just how they look and how strong the magnets are.

The BP hobbies motors im using inplace of the stock tail motors with the stock gear and rotor blade and they work WAY better then stock.

IMO the DD black endbell with the EF-0320 prop performs the same as the BP hobbies cheap motor with the stock prop and gear.

The DD setup has more heat and you can hear the tail better with that little prop it makes a high pitch whine

and im rambling...
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Old Jun 16, 2007, 07:28 AM
Muskego, Wisconsin
Joined Jan 2007
417 Posts
Here lets make this real simple! THE DUCTED FAN (EDF) DON'T LAST.
Didn't really mean to shout, but don't waste your time or money with the LHS
EDF motors they gey sizzleing hot and cook.
That motor is Dull silver grey end cap and no vent holes.
The right motors is shiney silver black end and has vent holes.
There, thats the visual difference.
But you can tell the difference with your eye's closed if you want, here's how you do it.
After running both motors close eyes, hold out hands and touch both motors.
the bird with the hot tail boom, and the hand that has no fingerprints left on it because they have been burnt off, well thats the wrong motor.
The other one you can still touch, Well that's the right one
Jim
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Old Jun 16, 2007, 07:57 AM
BeeZaur 480
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Parkville Mo.
Joined Dec 2004
5,522 Posts
The one with the vent and the one on the hummingbird are the good ones i have. They have strong magnets and will run the EF-0320 prop.

The others pictured are the BP hobbies i got for $5. with the 2 props.

They are still better then the little flat side stock tail motors. They dont get hot and ive ran about 10 packs threw one of them ive been flying alot.

To be safe get the black endbell one, this one will run the stock setup and the EF-0320 DD prop.

The cheapest is the BP hobbies with the stock housing and tail rotor.

The DD and EF-0320 you need a new housing, or run the stock housing upside down.
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Old Jun 17, 2007, 07:56 AM
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Toronto Canada
Joined Dec 2002
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I use the GWS motors from the GWS IPS geared power systems.

The 4.8V motors (RLC) have red ink placed on the junction between the can and the grey endbell. Extensive testing on 2 lipoly cells indicate that this motor can handle about 3.3A.

The 7.2V motors (RXC) which can be used as a tail motor on 3 lipos with a 3020 prop have no red ink. These motors should not draw more than about 2.2A regardless of whether they are on 2 or 3 lipoly cells.
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