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Old May 25, 2007, 01:42 AM
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Paine Field
Joined Apr 2004
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US Gov/a new super duper all time low

OK, so they can't remember anything at all, Gonzalas and everybody else. These people were born into the most advantaged families, went to the best universities for our brightest people and they can't remember!

Imagine for a moment if Clinton would have claimed no recollection! Republicans would have gone Ape crazy over that.

I will be checkin back to see what you right wingers have to say for yourselves!
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Old May 25, 2007, 02:16 AM
sensitive artsy type
Treetop's Avatar
Tucker, Georgia, United States
Joined Feb 2004
3,167 Posts
Boss: Joe, did you run that fork lift through the side of the building and make that big hole?

Joe American: I forget.

Boss: What! Are you on drugs or something, get out of here, you are FIRED!
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Old May 25, 2007, 07:02 AM
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Joined Oct 2005
659 Posts
Over at GSA, violations of the Hatch Act.

Over at Justice, a religious-freak law-enforcer with a baby voice gets caught
exercising her nastiness at Rove's behest and takes the fifth unless given
immunity; then she testifies that everybody (including Gonzo) but her lied
and that she herself broke the law by using political affiliation as a
criterion for promotion and hiring.

Over in the White House a few are already in jail.

Over in Congress more than
a few GOPers are in jail (more to follow, gratis Abramoff).

Over in "Ayrack" mess galore.

Over in the Middle East more mess galore. The whole of

South America hates us, ditto the Europeans.

The only foreigner that loves us
is Bin Laden sitting pretty in Pakistan whose "strong-man" we're paying
off to keep him "on the run."

I dunno why this bunch of GOP crooks and liars hasn't been impeached yet.

Peter
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Old May 25, 2007, 07:51 AM
Out of Time
United States, TX
Joined Jul 2003
1,092 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thermal Miester
OK, so they can't remember anything at all, Gonzalas and everybody else. These people were born into the most advantaged families, went to the best universities for our brightest people and they can't remember!

Imagine for a moment if Clinton would have claimed no recollection! Republicans would have gone Ape crazy over that.

I will be checkin back to see what you right wingers have to say for yourselves!
Before you embarrass yourself too much, you might want to do some googling on "Clinton I don't recall". Here's your first hit:
http://prorev.com/legacy.htm

Lost recollections were a major part of the entire Clinton administration staying out of jail.

From that site:

Number of times that Clinton figures who testified in court or before Congress said that they didn't remember, didn't know, or something similar.

Bill Kennedy 116
Harold Ickes 148
Ricki Seidman 160
Bruce Lindsey 161
Bill Burton 191
Mark Gearan 221
Mack McLarty 233
Neil Egglseston 250
Hillary Clinton 250
John Podesta 264
Jennifer O'Connor 343
Dwight Holton 348
Patsy Thomasson 420
Jeff Eller 697

FROM THE WASHINGTON TIMES: In the portions of President Clinton's Jan. 17 deposition that have been made public in the Paula Jones case, his memory failed him 267 times. This is a list of his answers and how many times he gave each one.

I don't remember - 71
I don't know - 62
I'm not sure - 17
I have no idea - 10
I don't believe so - 9
I don't recall - 8
I don't think so - 8
I don't have any specific recollection - 6
I have no recollection - 4
Not to my knowledge - 4
I just don't remember - 4
I don't believe - 4
I have no specific recollection - 3
I might have - 3
I don't have any recollection of that - 2 I don't have a specific memory - 2
I don't have any memory of that - 2
I just can't say - 2
I have no direct knowledge of that - 2
I don't have any idea - 2
Not that I recall - 2
I don't believe I did - 2
I can't remember - 2
I can't say - 2
I do not remember doing so - 2
Not that I remember - 2
I'm not aware - 1
I honestly don't know - 1
I don't believe that I did - 1
I'm fairly sure - 1
I have no other recollection - 1
I'm not positive - 1
I certainly don't think so - 1
I don't really remember - 1
I would have no way of remembering that - 1
That's what I believe happened - 1
To my knowledge, no - 1
To the best of my knowledge - 1
To the best of my memory - 1
I honestly don't recall - 1
I honestly don't remember - 1
That's all I know - 1
I don't have an independent recollection of that - 1
I don't actually have an independent memory of that - 1
As far as I know - 1
I don't believe I ever did that - 1
That's all I know about that - 1
I'm just not sure - 1
Nothing that I remember - 1
I simply don't know - 1
I would have no idea - 1
I don't know anything about that - 1
I don't have any direct knowledge of that - 1
I just don't know - 1
I really don't know - 1
I can't deny that, I just -- I have no memory of that at all - 1


Just keeping it real...

HF
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Old May 25, 2007, 08:01 AM
In Development Now
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Joined May 2005
448 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thermal Miester
OK, so they can't remember anything at all, Gonzalas and everybody else. These people were born into the most advantaged families, went to the best universities for our brightest people and they can't remember!

Imagine for a moment if Clinton would have claimed no recollection! Republicans would have gone Ape crazy over that.

I will be checkin back to see what you right wingers have to say for yourselves!

No, if Hillary Rodam Clinton say's "I don't recall", you promote her to President...

Quote:
Number of times HRC said "I don't recall" or its equivalent in a statement to a House investigating committee 50
LINK
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Old May 25, 2007, 08:06 AM
Out of Time
United States, TX
Joined Jul 2003
1,092 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thermal Miester
I will be checkin back to see what you right wingers have to say for yourselves!
Oops. Sometimes, you have to be careful what you ask for. You just may get it.

HF
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Old May 25, 2007, 08:18 AM
Don't look at me like that....
62pilot's Avatar
United States, AR, McDougal
Joined Aug 2005
2,801 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Highflight

FROM THE WASHINGTON TIMES: In the portions of President Clinton's Jan. 17 deposition that have been made public in the Paula Jones case, his memory failed him 267 times. This is a list of his answers and how many times he gave each one.

I don't remember - 71
I don't know - 62
I'm not sure - 17
I have no idea - 10
I don't believe so - 9
I don't recall - 8
I don't think so - 8
I don't have any specific recollection - 6
I have no recollection - 4
Not to my knowledge - 4
I just don't remember - 4
I don't believe - 4
I have no specific recollection - 3
I might have - 3
I don't have any recollection of that - 2 I don't have a specific memory - 2
I don't have any memory of that - 2
I just can't say - 2
I have no direct knowledge of that - 2
I don't have any idea - 2
Not that I recall - 2
I don't believe I did - 2
I can't remember - 2
I can't say - 2
I do not remember doing so - 2
Not that I remember - 2
I'm not aware - 1
I honestly don't know - 1
I don't believe that I did - 1
I'm fairly sure - 1
I have no other recollection - 1
I'm not positive - 1
I certainly don't think so - 1
I don't really remember - 1
I would have no way of remembering that - 1
That's what I believe happened - 1
To my knowledge, no - 1
To the best of my knowledge - 1
To the best of my memory - 1
I honestly don't recall - 1
I honestly don't remember - 1
That's all I know - 1
I don't have an independent recollection of that - 1
I don't actually have an independent memory of that - 1
As far as I know - 1
I don't believe I ever did that - 1
That's all I know about that - 1
I'm just not sure - 1
Nothing that I remember - 1
I simply don't know - 1
I would have no idea - 1
I don't know anything about that - 1
I don't have any direct knowledge of that - 1
I just don't know - 1
I really don't know - 1
I can't deny that, I just -- I have no memory of that at all - 1[/I]



HF
Oh cousin Bill, what an Orator............
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Old May 25, 2007, 08:49 AM
Trampling out the vintage
Joined Feb 2002
1,892 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Highflight
You just may get it.
"Bill Clinton was worse". That's it. That's the response. That's what they have to offer as far as the leaders they elected and few of them still continue to support.

My only response to such sentiment is that when the Dems take over control of both the Executive and Legislative branches, I hope they do not return the blind partisanship of the Republicans in equal measure. It hampers our ability to move the entire country forward.
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Old May 25, 2007, 09:05 AM
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ElectRick's Avatar
Jacksonville, FL
Joined Aug 2002
2,696 Posts
Greg, the OP was very clearly implying by his use of this statement
Quote:
Imagine for a moment if Clinton would have claimed no recollection! Republicans would have gone Ape crazy over that.
that (the) Clinton(s) never used such tactics to evade answering questions as part of giving testimony or making other official statements to investigators.

Surely you cannot be oblivious to this?

The replies posted here are simply evidence that such is clearly not the case. As for the relative numbers, they speak for themselves. So sorry if the numbers sting--but it's more appropriate to take that up with the Clintons, not HF.

I will give you props for trying to spin the subject away from the topic, though.

Rick
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Old May 25, 2007, 09:08 AM
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Joined May 2000
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Smith
"Bill Clinton was worse".
Wow, still putting words into the mouths of others I see.

The thread starter made a comment that suggested that Clinton had never 'do not remember'ed anything. He was shown that his assumption was wrong. No need to make things up because you are unhappy that someone with a (D) behind their name did the same thing someone is trying to give grief to a (R) for doing.

As to your other thought. They have already started by shutting out opposing views ... What on earth makes you think they will be any different than the (R)'s have been, or than they themselves have been in the past?
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Old May 25, 2007, 09:17 AM
Trampling out the vintage
Joined Feb 2002
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The only Democratic President I ever voted for was Carter, I am no Clinton fan. In evaluating the adminsitrations of recent Dems (Carter and Clinton) I do not see the wholesale malfeasance and ethical lapses and in-your-face partisanship I have seen for the last 6 years.

I do agree the thread starter made a foolish comment on Clinton. However his main point was look, there are a number of huge ethical issues with the Government; the response has been "Clinton was just as bad/worse". IMO that is a deficient defense based on a thoughtful comparison of both administrations.
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Old May 25, 2007, 09:27 AM
Out of Time
United States, TX
Joined Jul 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Smith
I do agree the thread starter made a foolish comment on Clinton. However his main point was look, there are a number of huge ethical issues with the Government; the response has been "Clinton was just as bad/worse". IMO that is a deficient defense based on a thoughtful comparison of both administrations.
No, the thread starter made a direct accusation of the present administration using a DIRECT comparison to Clinton as the standard of ethics, morality, and honor.

I and others simply answered the direct question that was posed.
Granted, given the context of the question with SPECIFIC reference and comparison to Bill Clinton and his administration, the question does look a bit "foolish", as you say.

HF
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Old May 25, 2007, 09:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Smith
the response has been "Clinton was just as bad/worse".
As a wise man has said before, repetition does not make a falsehood true.

The response was "you made an incorrect statment, here is the proof it is incorrect, perhaps you should look things up so as not to look to foolish in the future".
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Old May 25, 2007, 09:30 AM
Out of Time
United States, TX
Joined Jul 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Smith
My only response to such sentiment is that when the Dems take over control of both the Executive and Legislative branches, I hope they do not return the blind partisanship of the Republicans in equal measure. It hampers our ability to move the entire country forward.
You don't have to wait any longer. The Dems are ALREADY returning blind partisanship in much greater measure than they ever experienced with the Republicans.
Yet, you somehow have a fantasy that "IF" they win the exec. branch and both houses, that they will all of a sudden emerse themselves in loving cooperation?
Fantasies of the Left continue while reality comes back and bites hard ...

Again; ask for something and you might get it.

HF
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Old May 25, 2007, 09:31 AM
Trampling out the vintage
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The only clear lapse of Clinton was perjury about an affair.

Let's compare that to Delay, Abramoff, Downing Street memos/WMD campaign for Iraq, Plame matter, Gonzo, Gitmo, Wiretaps without warrants.

IMO I think one administration is worse in its abuses and malfeasance and it' is not close.

What say you? Is reform needed? Should Repubs go to a higher standard? Have lessons been learned?

I hear nothing on that. All I hear is "Clinton was as bad/worse".

In such response I see either disconnect from reality or partisanship so strong that party has been placed over principal.

Arbo: another nice rip!! But please open a window next time!!
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