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Old May 25, 2007, 04:27 AM
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Alternative Energy/Whales/Ocean's sick

Seriously, all the energy spent on nonsense discussion. How should it be generated? The ocean is the largest source of energy on the planet. It Is The Planet. As it sloshes around due to gravitational pull, it causes huge amounts of water to go in and out of coastal waterways. They call these tides and they are predictable. They can be harnessed without killing fishes. Wave action along shorelines can drive Wells turbines. These turbines were invented by a civil engineer and turn in the same direction regardless of direction of air flow. The blades are symmetrical and as a column of air is compressed and released by wave action, the turbine keeps on spinning in the same direction.

Oh yeah, then there are those whales that swam 200 miles up the Sacramento River. They did it because we are ruining their home, or it could be because their prop strike wounds burn real bad, due to increased salinity, and fresh water eases the pain. Either way, they dont want to be in the ocean. You'd slap your tail too, if some maggot kept banging pots and pans in your face after some other maggot ran you over.

Anyone irritated yet? Cranky? Need a Midol?
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Old May 25, 2007, 07:45 AM
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HA Ha! That's the spirit!
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Old May 25, 2007, 08:56 AM
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Joined Nov 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LukeZ
Sincerely no offence, but yes it has, many tiring and pointless times. At the end of the day, the questions being posed answer themselves, nor are there ultimately any actionable outcomes that come from them. It just gets people's shackles up and makes everyone cranky for a month or so.

Especially Dan...


Luke



Naw, I'm going to stay out of the defending of UAV builders this time. I'm out of BP meds. What does Ron White say? "You can't fix Stupid!" You got to let the paranoid ones go.

Dan
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Old May 25, 2007, 09:28 AM
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WOW forgive me for asking a qusetion. And yes I did join the good guys, Hello!!!!! Im in the USAF and spent more time than I care to in Iraq, Kuwait, Saudi, Qutar, and Bahrain. I'v been shot at enough to confirm who's side I'm on.

I'm sorry I didnt know this was a sore and worn out topic.
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Old May 25, 2007, 12:52 PM
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Nothing personal even if it sounded like it. If you had seen all the previous threads on this subject you would probably understand why itís such a sore subject. We started off by handling these threads with care and discussion but they seem to escalate pretty fast and go downhill even faster. I guess Iíve gravitated to just trying to slam them as soon as they crop up.

We had one guy from Back East that claimed because he was from New York that he had a better sense for this that people like me who live in Potato Country. He insisted that we contact the Department of Homeland Security and outline how these models can be used in nefarious ways. I think that thread ended up getting completely deleted by the moderators because it decayed so badly. I can't find it anymore.

Many of us feel that in any ones hands, anyone that wants to kill, maim, terrorize, what have you, that almost anything you can get your hands on in daily life can be put to bad use. You're not wrong in stating this can too. But itís not our charter and we just cringe at the association.

I also know from a source I do business with about the school teacher issue mentioned in that article. The article leans towards sensationalism as that's what it takes to sell papers. UAV guidance packages cannot be exported to countries where they're not approved. Because of the reason you mentioned. The Teacher fell into a conversation with the group and honestly thought he was helping some overseas UAV experimenter. He wasn't knowingly helping any terror group. Thatís why we need to be careful here. 911 changed the landscape pretty violently. We help a lot of people and certain things from them can make you wonder. It's best to question when youíre helping someone that states they are from Bagdad.

Anyway, my apologies if I came across like an a$$. I appreciate your service. I myself spent 10 years in the army.

Dan
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Old May 25, 2007, 01:27 PM
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The more this topic is debated and rehashed in these forums the more it's thrown in the face of the powers that be. Like kd7 said, anything can be used for good or for bad for the most part. Govt types are a curious lot. The more you make like there's a problem the more they will come to believe it's a problem and overreact. We all know what the capability of an rc plane is probably better than anyone else but there's no real point in going on and on about it unless we want some bureaucrat to take notice and ruin the hobby for all of us. If you see something that makes you worry it's your obligation or duty to report it to the authorities, but it's not anyone's obligation or duty to put gasoline on a fire that up to this point hasn't even existed.
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Old May 25, 2007, 02:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wingnut31
I have been interested in RC planes for a long time and have thought some anout UAV's. Being in the USAF and getting to see some UAV's in action and having to look for terrorest threats a thought occured to me. What kind of danger or harm could someone used a large scale model as a weapon. With the technology that is available and the motivation to cause harm that some people have, isn't it a matter of time before someone builds a drone equipped to carry a dangerous payload?

The method used to build such a UAV is not my focus here, I dont want to encourage anyone to move in this direction of turn this into a terrorists how-to. My worry is that if it happens the danger to the hobby could be great. Law makers could be pushed to set regulations that would limit what, where, and how we fly and build. Imagin having to register our models having to have them inspected or certified. Being limited to only a few places to fly or being limited on the size of out models.

I think it is just a matter of time before we have to deal with this. Has this topic been brought up already?
Although the subject has been brought up in numerous cases on this, and other forums, it's the first time I've actually seen the media and a public official involved. So, it needs some discussion, in my opinion. Whether or not anybody likes it, things have changed since 9/11, especially in areas involving any form of aviation. It is certainly true that owning a gun is considered a Second Amendment right. Many politicians would like to consider a model plane as a delivery device, and there is no place in the Constitution that mentions the right to own one.

We can argue about putting stuff in a full-sized Cessna until we are blue in the face, but this issue is NOT going to go away. We can try looking away and hiding from it while talking about global warming, but it's not going to go away. We can even discuss Paris Hilton and her stay in the slammer, but it'll still be there, looking us directly in the face. We may have to deal with it at some point. I know, it's media hysteria. But it's what the general public sees when they're not directly involved with the hobby.

NorfolkSouthern

(edited for better clarity)
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Old May 25, 2007, 02:35 PM
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I don't know how fully I agree. I mean you are right but the reality is that it isn't a blown up wide open issue. For example, and this is kicking that poor dead horse again, but the biggest way to do damage at present is with Car Bombs. Do we need to discuss getting rid of cars? Nothing in the constitution gives us the right to bear cars.

If you give politicians a reason to have a feel good moment by protecting citizens of the world after telling them how bad a model plane could be, we have lost a lot more than we have gained.

Dan
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Old May 25, 2007, 03:06 PM
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It's not a blown up wide open issue yet. However, I was a bit surprised to see the article. One good thing that came out of it, is the learning curve, and the possibility that a conspiracy would most likely get shut down before it even starts to come to fruition. In that sense, I doubt if we really have anything to worry about at this point.

I think a partial solution to the hysteria would be to get more positive public exposure. Clubs could sponsor more shows, and perhaps more people should be given the opportunity to try model aviation at one point or other. It's not just for nerds, ya know? I see nothing wrong with better promotion of Control-Line flying either. It's fun! But also, R/C has quite a bit to offer, even for those who are into golf or archery.

The NRA, I believe, has the best idea when it comes to our enjoyment of hobbies that may arouse some negative interest. Their philosophy is to go after the criminals, not the guns that are in the hands of law abiding citizens. It's a part of why conspiracy laws exist, and a reason for the lengthy sentences. The ACLU might not like it, but we have to give the organization some credit for their help in protecting some of the enjoyment of our liberties. After-all, a criminal would simply fashion a razor blade in a toothbrush if that's the only tool he has access to.

NorfolkSouthern
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Old May 25, 2007, 03:12 PM
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All good points. I have no illusion of a model being used as a WMD but even a small package placed in a crowd can give the bad guys what they want. They feed off of fear; it's their MO. Cars, garbage bags and even dead animals have been used to house an improvised explosive device. Those are the most popular methods used by insurgents now. It is mostly what troops are expecting to encounter. Terror cells are becoming more inventive, as soon as we start to pick up on what they are doing, they change stratagies.

Hopefully this hobby will not become a harmful tool, and I pray that we wont have to stay in the middle east much longer.

Dan I think I jumpped the gun and tossed out a little more attitude than I should have. I apologize. 10 in the Army huh. Ever been to FT Bragg? Right now Im at Pope AFB right next door. I'm polishing off my 10th. I figure I'm half way and might as well finish the next ten. A pension at age 42 wouldnt be too bad.

Brian
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Old May 25, 2007, 03:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wingnut31
Dan I think I jumpped the gun and tossed out a little more attitude than I should have. I apologize. 10 in the Army huh. Ever been to FT Bragg? Right now Im at Pope AFB right next door. I'm polishing off my 10th. I figure I'm half way and might as well finish the next ten. A pension at age 42 wouldnt be too bad.

Brian
Naw Brian, we're good. I blew up and am not making excuses. You know the reasons but we're past that now.

I spent my last 4.5 years at Ft Bragg. My best flying buddy lived on Pope AFB. We used to load into C130 or C141's and jump on Ft Bragg from the far side of Pope. You Zoomies used to love to kick us out the door. My buddy Bruce and I spent many hours flying on the Parade field at Bragg.

A new forum started recently. It is a little more open ended than just AP or UAVs in a way. Several reasons we discussed to start the forum was to collect threads on using our technology for Science, Historical preservation and Discovery. But we also wanted to showcase the value of what we can do with Model planes and low altitude, low range UAVs. I don't know what else to do for us except to keep doing work like that and providing a location where people can go to see that there can be public benefits to what we do. Everyone is invited. It's so new it's still in the 30 day trial period. Come over and have a look see. It would be great to get others participating in some of these ideas.

I think the more we collect these kinds of threads, the more politicians or newspaper people will have an uphill battle to say we have toys, hobby outlets or weapons.

Be sure to read the Rules for posting thread first. Weíre trying to do things a bit different by creating two threads for most every mission covered. That way it allows the person doing the research to keep adding to the working thread without it getting cluttered with remarks. A separate thread is for the remarks. Iím not sure thatís working out right now as youíll see some threads are still combining pictures and comments. Just something to be aware of.

Dan

http://www.rcgroups.com/aerial-photo...discovery-484/
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Old May 25, 2007, 04:04 PM
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Dan has some very strong points. I have an interest in industrial archeology, and a small UAV can be handy in picking out some abandoned railroad beds, and then plot areas of where factories once stood. Also, they can be of good use for agriculture regarding the study of former oilfields, and how well crops are holding up where the well was capped, as compared to the rest of the field. That information alone can be gathered inexpensively, and used to determine compliance by the former owner of that well. It's just one example. Perhaps one day, telling a business that they can't use their UAV will be like telling a bakery to get rid of their Hobart mixer!

In as far as this thread is concerned, perhaps it can be turned into a good thing. For example: A new neighbor moves to a given community. About a week later, dozens of cars start pulling in, and then leaving. Loud music thumps constantly, and graffiti starts to appear on the walls of local businesses and alleys. Eventually, someone suspects that drugs are being sold from that particular property. Law enforcement takes notice, busts the dope dealers, and essentially shuts down the operation. If people in the hobby act as though they're a part of a community, I honestly don't think criminals would have a chance to get very far with their plans. No need for suspicion. But if someone starts bragging about putting their Funtana through somebody's windshield, then that may be worth investigating. We need to target criminals, not our individual rights and privileges.

NorfolkSouthern
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Old May 25, 2007, 04:11 PM
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Nampa. Idaho
Joined Nov 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NorfolkSouthern
Dan has some very strong points. I have an interest in industrial archeology, and a small UAV can be handy in picking out some abandoned railroad beds, and then plot areas of where factories once stood. Also, they can be of good use for agriculture regarding the study of former oilfields, and how well crops are holding up where the well was capped, as compared to the rest of the field. That information alone can be gathered inexpensively, and used to determine compliance by the former owner of that well. It's just one example. Perhaps one day, telling a business that they can't use their UAV will be like telling a bakery to get rid of their Hobart mixer!

In as far as this thread is concerned, perhaps it can be turned into a good thing. For example: A new neighbor moves to a given community. About a week later, dozens of cars start pulling in, and then leaving. Loud music thumps constantly, and graffiti starts to appear on the walls of local businesses and allies. Eventually, someone suspects that drugs are being sold from that particular property. Law enforcement takes notice, busts the dope dealers, and essentially shuts down the operation. If people in the hobby act as though they're a part of a community, I honestly don't think criminals would have a chance to get very far with their plans. No need for suspicion. But if someone starts bragging about putting their Funtana through somebody's windshield, then that may be worth investigating. We need to target criminals, not our individual rights and privileges.

NorfolkSouthern
I know it sounds a bit cliche, But Amen Brother. Let's show what good we can do and have fun with flying too. We will be the experts on doing new good things with RC.

Dan
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Old May 25, 2007, 07:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kd7ost
I appreciate your service. I myself spent 10 years in the army.

Dan
OH Dan

I never know that the very nice device I got last time is came from the hand of army guy.

Very impress and I will also how to return the possitive result to help army social work in my area too.

Thank again Dan
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Old May 25, 2007, 07:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThaiskyDigital
OH Dan

I never know that the very nice device I got last time is came from the hand of army guy.

Very impress and I will also how to return the possitive result to help army social work in my area too.

Thank again Dan
Hey Tanate,

How are you? Yep, us Army guys are regular people. How is your project coming along? Or should I say projects. You seem to be doing a lot of things.

It would be great if you could take some pictures of some some Temples in Thailand and post them with a story on the new forum. Most of us don't get to see very much from your part of the world and it holds a lot of allure and fascination for us.

Dan
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