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Old May 14, 2007, 08:51 PM
FPV Pilot
Crash9's Avatar
United States, MT, Missoula
Joined Mar 2006
1,264 Posts
Question
Separate Radio for gyro Head-Tracker

I was looking through the threads here (all the way to the begining of time) and didn't see anything that mention that you could use a seperate RC radio to transmit head movments to Pan n Tilt servos. If there is one can you point me there or maybe there's a Head-Tracker gyro with built in seperate radio, Thanks. If not the reason I ask is that there's a few people out there that have sent me emails on the subject so I thought I would search it out here in FPV land where the all the masters fly in .
Here's the reason this has come up, the use of radios like the DX7, MPX-HiTek, JR, etc...that don't have the ability to operate the needed channels through the trainer port or some mods have to made with possible draw-backs.
Wouldn't a seperate radio solve this. Something like a spare 3-4 channel radio and with the head-Tracker just being wired directly to the channels needed. Separate RX in the aircraft that would operate Pan n Tilt. If so this could also free up the FPV pilots that still would like there trainer port connected to a buddy box for the spotter. Seems possible to me to do it and I'm sure someone has, even though it would require a little more gear and that maybe ok for some to gain Head-Tracking without buying a new radio. The Head-Tracker radio could be placed anywhere since you will only need to get to it, to turn on and off .

Here's what I would like to do:
Spectrum DX7 2.4 radio to operate plane
HiTek Lazer 4 to operate 2 servos for Pan n Tilt (maybe 3 for side tilt (Z)
Head-Tracker conected directly to Laser4
HiTek RX 2 or more channels for Pan n Tilt
900mhz wireless video

I'm going with this set-up since I already have this gear but any radio compo should work.

I realize that it would be easier to just have a compatible Head-Tracker radio like a Futaba but for some it's not an option when a person already has purchased a different un-compatible radio (like myself ).

Like stated above: if this has been done already, just point me there
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Old May 14, 2007, 11:46 PM
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PeteSchug's Avatar
Elmhurst, NY (Queens in NYC)
Joined Apr 2004
7,044 Posts
It makes sense and it doesn't make sense at the same time.

If I fly at my club I have to use two pins to fly, which is guaranteed to annoy someone waiting to fly. Yes! we have pins for 2.4 gHz. Only four people are allowed to fly at a time unless the field marshall permits two pilots to fly at one (hmm... I don't know the formal word) flying position. Aerotow and gliders in general are excluded but they have certain frequencies set aside for them.

Point is that for now at least there are pins even for 2.4 and if I need two pins to fly someone is going to complain about my hogging two frequencies.

On the other hand if you are alone in the boonies, who cares. When I am off by myself I already have too much gear to lug, what with extra rx's, goggles, camcorders (plural if I've got someone to shoot my plane from the ground.) etc.

Cutting down on the clutter both in terms of carrying gear and occupying frequencies is part of my personal goal. OSD for instance means not using 900 mHz to transmit telemetry data such as variometer and altitude, which I use now with my gliders.

I'm sure all these problems will be solved eventually with some sort of two way link.

BTW, I don't know who or how the decision was made to limit the number of 2.4 gHz tx's allowed. Neither the general membership, nor the board was involved in the decision, but nobody complained. I think the idea was to prevent arguments about people casually turning radios on in the pit area. Too much for the field marshall to have to monitor. Dunno, apparently a unilateral decision by the officers.

Pete
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Old May 15, 2007, 12:23 AM
Just trying to get a nut.
scrtsqrl's Avatar
United States, VA, McLean
Joined Oct 2006
6,400 Posts
Am in the same boat as you.

Thinking this might be the answer though...

What do you think?
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Old May 15, 2007, 12:37 AM
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AnthonyRC's Avatar
Switzerland
Joined Sep 2004
1,143 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crash9
I was looking through the threads here (all the way to the begining of time) and didn't see anything that mention that you could use a seperate RC radio to transmit head movments to Pan n Tilt servos. If there is one can you point me there or maybe there's a Head-Tracker gyro with built in seperate radio, Thanks. If not the reason I ask is that there's a few people out there that have sent me emails on the subject so I thought I would search it out here in FPV land where the all the masters fly in .
Here's the reason this has come up, the use of radios like the DX7, MPX-HiTek, JR, etc...that don't have the ability to operate the needed channels through the trainer port or some mods have to made with possible draw-backs.
Wouldn't a seperate radio solve this. Something like a spare 3-4 channel radio and with the head-Tracker just being wired directly to the channels needed. Separate RX in the aircraft that would operate Pan n Tilt. If so this could also free up the FPV pilots that still would like there trainer port connected to a buddy box for the spotter. Seems possible to me to do it and I'm sure someone has, even though it would require a little more gear and that maybe ok for some to gain Head-Tracking without buying a new radio. The Head-Tracker radio could be placed anywhere since you will only need to get to it, to turn on and off .

Here's what I would like to do:
Spectrum DX7 2.4 radio to operate plane
HiTek Lazer 4 to operate 2 servos for Pan n Tilt (maybe 3 for side tilt (Z)
Head-Tracker conected directly to Laser4
HiTek RX 2 or more channels for Pan n Tilt
900mhz wireless video

I'm going with this set-up since I already have this gear but any radio compo should work.

I realize that it would be easier to just have a compatible Head-Tracker radio like a Futaba but for some it's not an option when a person already has purchased a different un-compatible radio (like myself ).

Like stated above: if this has been done already, just point me there
This has been mentioned before, but I can't find the thread for the moment.
Instead of a whole radio, my suggestion would be to use a $29 HITEC RF module (ebay item #170067502829 is one example)
These modules contain the piece of the radio that you need, and nothing that you dont.
Basically you need to supply power to it, connect the PPM Out from the head tracker to its PPM In pin, and supply an antenna.
One of these 'rubber-duck' style antennas could be used.

This would result in a very compact module, which could even be head-mounted to eliminate the wires.

I assume that for the 2.4GHz frequency pins you mean for the downlink, since it makes no sense for the uplink.
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Old May 15, 2007, 04:56 AM
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PeteSchug's Avatar
Elmhurst, NY (Queens in NYC)
Joined Apr 2004
7,044 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by scrtsqrl
Am in the same boat as you.

Thinking this might be the answer though...

What do you think?
The instructions with my twin star call for 18 mm up and 10 mm down aileron. I could get pretty close mechanically if I replace the aileron push rod and maybe the control horn, but the usual way is to have separate right and left channels. Right now I am using five channels just for the normal flight controls. I'd also love to add full span flapperons and maybe differential motor control.

I got the basic TS set up this past weekend and it hasn't flown yet, but everything is already set up. Aileron diff, expo, dual rates etc. and I have the extra channels I need for the head tracking.

I love my 9 ch Futaba for good reason, and I think I would like the 14 ch even better. Spend money once, and use for everything instead of getting an inflexible beginners radio that requires you to make each plane fit the tx instead of making each plane the way it is supposed to be and adjust the tx to include the requirements of that plane.

If I sound as if I don't like any other solutions I will point out that I have ten different airplanes programmed into my channel 19 Futaba and a couple in my channel 14 (club glider frequency) tx. I am not about to buy an el cheapo six channel low class non-computer tx that I can only fly with one very limited style of airplane. I may be spoiled but I am totally hooked on the flexibility of modern computer tx's with lots of extra channels.

Pete
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Old May 15, 2007, 05:13 AM
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PeteSchug's Avatar
Elmhurst, NY (Queens in NYC)
Joined Apr 2004
7,044 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnthonyRC
I assume that for the 2.4GHz frequency pins you mean for the downlink, since it makes no sense for the uplink.
No, this is purely for the uplink.

I think the reason is that you need a pin to take your tx out of the impound and they don't want the field marshall to have to spend his day checking radios up and down the pit area and flight line to make sure that nobody turns on a 72 mHz radio without a pin. Also there is a strong desire to limit fooling around with radios and especially engines in the pit area anyway.

As I said, neither the membership nor the board was consulted, but nobody complained about the decision. I'm on the board and I didn't even get a phone call, so it was decided by just the officers.

On a good weekend day we may have twenty or more flyers at the field with only four permitted to fly at once, so the field marshall has a lot of responsibility as it is. Also, the vast majority uses 72 mHz and only a few of us have 2.4 gHz stuff so there were no complaints.

Nobody cares about downlink since it is not required for control of the plane and I have yet to hear of two glider pilots arguing about getting their varios mixed up. I am the only person with on-board video in my club. Funny thing is that a lot of people seem very interested in the gear, watch my casual demos with real interest, have poked their nose into my videos taking a peek at the camera, but nobody seems to be ready to try it themselves.

Pete
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Old May 15, 2007, 05:43 AM
Resistance is Futile
camship's Avatar
United States, FL, Panama City Beach
Joined Oct 2001
2,680 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnthonyRC
This has been mentioned before, but I can't find the thread for the moment.
Instead of a whole radio, my suggestion would be to use a $29 HITEC RF module (ebay item #170067502829 is one example)
These modules contain the piece of the radio that you need, and nothing that you dont.
Basically you need to supply power to it, connect the PPM Out from the head tracker to its PPM In pin, and supply an antenna.
One of these 'rubber-duck' style antennas could be used.

This would result in a very compact module, which could even be head-mounted to eliminate the wires.

I assume that for the 2.4GHz frequency pins you mean for the downlink, since it makes no sense for the uplink.
[http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...61#post7345761

Camship
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Old May 15, 2007, 05:45 AM
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AnthonyRC's Avatar
Switzerland
Joined Sep 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by camship
Thanks camship . Did you ever give this a try?
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Old May 15, 2007, 06:04 AM
Resistance is Futile
camship's Avatar
United States, FL, Panama City Beach
Joined Oct 2001
2,680 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnthonyRC
Thanks camship . Did you ever give this a try?

Not yet. I do have one in the works. I just two days ago managed to recover all my PC's and data from a rather unfortunate occurrance back in Feb. but all is well now, (sort of). Despite the fact that I had to extinguish under-hood fires on two of my cars last thursday and am now down to one car and two motorcycles. Guess who gets the car?

I intended from the outset to have two RC TX's anyway. The original configuration required two full RC TX's but I like this solution much more. So now it is: PC>Servo Encoder>Futaba TX module.

Adding the TrackR1 is a matter of choose your channels and program for re-process to pick up the PC command channels and feed it to the TX module.

The ground station machine also suffered greatly but is currently purring away doing a burn-in and batt duration test ATM. Now work may progress. I will keep all posted on results as they come in. It's just little 'ol me rowing a boat for four ATM so I'm pretty crazy of late.

Camship
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Old May 17, 2007, 12:31 AM
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jmendell's Avatar
Boston, MA
Joined May 2007
70 Posts
Check this out, only issue is that it requires a PC.
The cool thing is that he's got examples (with source) on how to control a plane from your PC.

http://www.endurance-rc.com/realvision.html

z800--> PC --> PCTx box --> R/C Transmitter
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Old May 17, 2007, 12:50 AM
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Crash9's Avatar
United States, MT, Missoula
Joined Mar 2006
1,264 Posts
Pretty cool and I alway's take a laptop when I fly for recording, the price though ouch!! only complete system offered .
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Old May 17, 2007, 05:20 AM
Resistance is Futile
camship's Avatar
United States, FL, Panama City Beach
Joined Oct 2001
2,680 Posts
I built this for my PC needs. And I am doing development with the Endurance RC equipment. Just taking a bit to get funding lined up.

It runs on any DC 10-15V 60W+ source. Fits under the seat in my chase vehicle and plugs into a harness that is being installed in the car for semi-permanent use for my computing needs on the road.

Camship
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Last edited by camship; May 17, 2007 at 05:57 AM.
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Old May 17, 2007, 08:14 AM
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United States, CA, San Diego
Joined Jan 2005
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Even have a spot for your beer
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Old May 17, 2007, 08:33 AM
Resistance is Futile
camship's Avatar
United States, FL, Panama City Beach
Joined Oct 2001
2,680 Posts
Oh, so that's what that thing is

Camshickp
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Old May 19, 2007, 09:36 PM
Awesometown
jmendell's Avatar
Boston, MA
Joined May 2007
70 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crash9
Pretty cool and I alway's take a laptop when I fly for recording, the price though ouch!! only complete system offered .
Actually - no, all you need is the PCTx ($49 http://www.endurance-rc.com/pctx.html) and the software ($ 99 http://www.endurance-rc.com/realvision.html)

$150 total and it works great.

This is my setup: http://download.andomedia.com/files/realvisionsetup.gif

.. and a video
Jordan Head Tracker for RC plane (0 min 32 sec)
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