Originally Posted by bz1mcr

The Scout is a 2 channel plane. That means you can only control pitch indirectly with motor power and turning. That makes avoiding stalls a challenge new flyers are not well equipped to handel. It often leads to frustration.
IMHO, any 2 channel plane is harder to fly than a 3 channel. I would never suggest a beginner start with a 2 channel airplane.

Biuld the BB. Get 3 channel radio gear and have a ball. Here is a 4 channel radio set for less than $40
Don

Don is giving very good advice here.

I have personally witnessed two people that actually managed to master a 2 channel plane and both struggled flying a 3 channel. I built BB33's for both and they have since both mastered flying 3 channel and one has even moved on to 4 channel slimmer. I tried flying there 2 channel plane and I would rank the experiance as miserable. If I had started there I would have given up long ago. I also built a bb33 for a complete novice that was flying the plane comfortably by himself in less then 20 minutes with no experiance of any kind. I didn't even use a buddy box. Just talked him through the first few flights and then away he went on his own.

Anyone can build one of these planes and anyone can fly them. Once in the air you can fly nearly an entire pack out of one and literally never touch the throttle until time to land. They can be built and flown comfortably with the cheapest components and with a little TLC and occasional repair they will fly for a very long time.

You just can't go wrong.

Rob...

As for polyhedra wings on a KFm section:

A friend built a simple plane with KFM1 (? 50% step on top) without any dihedral and found it hard to fly due to the proportions. We told him to add a bent-up piece of credit-card-sized plastic card (such as telephone cards) on each wing-tip. He just strapped them on with filament tape and it became VERY MUCH more stable. It's now even fun to fly. You don't really need a full polyhedral section, just somethin that angles up at the wing tip.

chewy

OK. I guess it is just time to start scrounging for the right parts. I am still going to consider a crashed donor plane if the price is right because it might give me the parts needed at a cheaper cost than buying them separate.

Relative to the johnson motors, I have several, and they have 20519 and 393855 on the flux ring. They are the "original" dcm189, or so I've been told, and they are pretty powerful for their size and being brushed (one link said 5620kv). I have one on one of my 24" bb's - flies it well, but it's running a small prop and flies the plane pretty fast. Wouldn't be a good trainer. I put one in a gws gearset and it flies a slocat nice and slow, but then you are into another part. Probably for the money, I'd get one of the 24gm or other cheap HC motors. Eventually when you get adventursome, try out the j250 on something. Remember it's a brushed motor, needs a brushed esc.

i was wondering if anyone (inculding tony lol) would come up with a great BB decal maby with designed by tony65x55 in it that we could put on our BBs becouse there are more of these in the air than the super cubs or PZ j3's lol.i think that would be a nice tibute to tony.maby even have RCG in it.. its just a thought. let me know what ya think..

Mike

Rickochet
your 42 bb weighs 24oz? i think i may have kept my BB 60 under 22oz atm it weighs at 16 with no electronics. i knew my 3/4" eps weighed less than my dollar tree foam.i guess ill have to buy a sheet and weigh them both when i picked up my eps i deffently tell it weighs less..if anyone is curious what foam im talking about they use it when they put up epheus or stucko.i got it from a jobsite of mine i get it 50 cents a sheet at my local construction supply its 3/4" thick 2 foot wide and 4 foot long.. its the best sanding foam i used yet.i used it for the fuse and bottom of my kfm wing for my BB 60 my pictures of my plane a couple pages back.its 10x s more duriable and at least a couple times lighter..im courious what other peoples BB60s weigh chime in if you dont mind..
thanks
mike

Originally Posted by justwanttofly

...im courious what other peoples BB60s weigh chime in if you dont mind..

Mine's 19oz with everything but the battery. My BB42's usually come in around 13-14oz.

kendall

Originally Posted by justwanttofly

Rickochet
your 42 bb weighs 24oz?
mike

I haven't built a BB yet. You must have meant someone else.

Originally Posted by justwanttofly

i was wondering if anyone (inculding tony lol) would come up with a great BB decal maby with designed by tony65x55 in it that we could put on our BBs becouse there are more of these in the air than the super cubs or PZ j3's lol.i think that would be a nice tibute to tony.maby even have RCG in it.. its just a thought. let me know what ya think..
Mike

My wife makes decals on her ink jet printer. I am not sure where she gets the stock but it prints out a clear backed water release decal. She just sizes up the graphic she wants and prints then hits it with some clear Krylon then soaks it and applies. Here is small one she made for my mCX we named "Buzz."

Here is the link to the Sea BB build thread with plans and more.

Ken

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...8#post10957126

nikg wrote:

"..Options right now are:
1. Build BB from scratch with cheap parts from HC or the like. Will probably cost about $30-$40 but does not include radio system. Would need to get a used one for $15-$30 depending on what people want on eBay.
2. Build BB airframe for $5 and lift the electronics from a donor. I'm thinking a cheap Firebird Scout/Phantom or a plane that has been crashed and is no longer wanted. This would give me at least one servo, a radio system and motor for hopefully $25 or less.
3. Forget the BB and just try a cheap Firebird Scout. They look a bit fast though..."

I have to agree with Don and Rob that the Firebirds are a little limiting. The 29" wingspan and two channel system put the kid in a situation where he has to have a zero wind day to fly, is really not learning the basics he needs to go on to a 3 or 4 channel system, and has little or no hardware in the Scout that he can use on the next plane.

I sympathize on the time issues for building. But he can learn from that too if he is involved. And repairs on a scratch built Blu-Baby are *much* cheaper, faster, and easier than rubbing a RTF with replacement parts.

"..Jack -- It appears you made a new wing for your Sky Fly. Is it possible to just get teh Firebird Scout and throw a BB-type wing on it to make it a slower flyer? Anybody have comments on this or tried it?..."

It might work, you'd probably have to try it to find out. The Scout, (as it is described, I've never been around one) is probably a slower, probably slightly underpowered, probably "floaty" basic trainer.

If you build a BB 33 with an undercambered wing you would have the same thing except that it could be adequately powered, would have known to be impeccable flying qualities as a trainer, and you would have a motor, ESC, RX, and two servos in it that could go on and on for future interations of the same plane or for an evolution of steadily advancing trainers and sport flyers.

The way I see it is that if you can or are willing to do the work, putting the money you would spend on RTF's or ARTF's into scratch builds like the Blu-Baby, and adding a little bit more to it for better and much more versatile electronics, is a better long term way to go.

And if you enjoy the building and messing about with it all thing (it *is* a hobby and hobbies *are* good for the head), that is the frosting on the cake.

Jack

I finally got tired of using a half crushed cardboard box:

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=954884

Jack

Originally Posted by jackerbes

nikg wrote:

I have to agree with Don and Rob that the Firebirds are a little limiting. The 29" wingspan and two channel system put the kid in a situation where he has to have a zero wind day to fly, is really not learning the basics he needs to go on to a 3 or 4 channel system, and has little or no hardware in the Scout that he can use on the next plane.

I sympathize on the time issues for building. But he can learn from that too if he is involved. And repairs on a scratch built Blu-Baby are *much* cheaper, faster, and easier than rubbing a RTF with replacement parts.
Jack

My kid and I started with a Firebird ... and it was disappointing. It was just plain difficult to fly unlesss there was zero wind. On the good side, it was a pusher, so nose-in landings weren't such a big deal. But after a few of these, the spar holding the tail got loose in the body, altering the angle of attack, after which it became impossible to fly (until I figured it out and fixed it).

The real learning took place when we spent an afternoon building GPW's "Trainer-One". Our build wasn't perfect (by any means!), but it was good enough to fly, and we had the confidence to know that if we crashed, we could fix things with tape and hot-glue. If only the J-250 motors were still available, I'd recommend that you build one of those.

Barring that, the Blue-baby seems to be about as good as it gets. The skills needed to assemble it are pretty modest, and the design is certainly excellent. Radio stuff *is* expensive...but you have a couple of choices:

1. Buy a radio when you buy your firebird; then throw it away when the Firebird's done, because you won't really be able to re-use it.

2. Buy a real radio and build a BB; you can re-use the radio for a long time (or sell it to the next beginner).

As I'm clearly hinting, I'd recommend plan 2. It's actually cheaper in the long run, except that you get into this hobby and start spending more and more money
-
-John

I started with the Hobby Zone SuperCub.
First thing you'll want to do with it is toss the radio equipment and servos because they are junk. Then you have to buy a real radio- etc. Not a cheap way to start out in the hobby. If I would have known then what I know now I would have never bought the SuperCub.

I got my "real" radio here on the rcgroups for sale board for $40.

If you can build a plane go with a scratch foamy.
A Blubaby or similar.
Another plane I haven't built but many have had good luck with is the Blu beagle pusher.

Mike

Originally Posted by justwanttofly
Rickochet
your 42 bb weighs 24oz?
mike

Originally Posted by Rickochet

I haven't built a BB yet. You must have meant someone else.

I had mentioned 24oz for my BB42 KFM3 wing with floats attatched. Actually it is 27.1oz AUW ready for takeoff. The KFM3 wing is a little heavier than the UC wing and the floats have weight too. It's Rick confusion. Could be worse. Could be the University of Walamaloo.