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Old Aug 15, 2012, 05:36 PM
Emress
sirbow2's Avatar
United States, SD, Rapid City
Joined Nov 2011
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i used packaging tape in some place ( like for the surfaces). i think i will definitely use gorilla or something on my next build as the wing was had wrinkles in it from when i used hot glue to do the kmF3 fold (dried too quick).

i have big question : what is the best way to do servos?! this was probably the most challenging parts of my build. i moved the servo to center position and then made a control rod that would make the servo at at center and the surface. and how would you make a rod removable? as once a two z bends are in, it is impossible to get it out with out cutting out the servo or surface? i used .078 music wire.
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Old Aug 15, 2012, 07:07 PM
Jack
USA, ME, Ellsworth
Joined May 2008
16,849 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by sirbow2 View Post
i used packaging tape in some place ( like for the surfaces). i think i will definitely use gorilla or something on my next build as the wing was had wrinkles in it from when i used hot glue to do the kmF3 fold (dried too quick).
You'll never regret the change to Gorilla or Gorilla Quick. Make sure you spritz one piece with water and spread the glue evenly on the other, then weight them down and you'll get wonderfully strong wings.

You expressed an interest in the KFm3P wing in a PM, this how to for building a KFm3P wing for the BB 33 has a good description of building with Gorilla Glue (or any PU glue for that matter).

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1474665

Quote:
i have big question : what is the best way to do servos?! this was probably the most challenging parts of my build. i moved the servo to center position and then made a control rod that would make the servo at at center and the surface. and how would you make a rod removable? as once a two z bends are in, it is impossible to get it out with out cutting out the servo or surface? i used .078 music wire.
Use a Z bend at the servo and a DuBro Mini EZ or EZ connectors at the horn.

http://www.hobby-lobby.com/dubro_con...re_546_ctg.htm

That allows for quick and easy adjustments later and also simplifies the rod installation as you can push the surface down and the rod will just slide right in. I like the minis best, they take .047 or a little larger wire, regular EZ connector will take the .078. But when I put servos out on the wing I find .047 wire strong enough for a short direct servo linkage.

The only issue I have with Mini EZ connectors is that the screws can vibrate out when not tightened. So I put some non-hardeneing Permatex on the screws when I put them in so they stay in place even if loose. Those are 2-56 screws and I sometimes replace them with 2-56 socket head cap screws so that I can use a ball ended hex wrench on them in places where they are not as easy to get at.

I'm always a two servos for ailerons guy too. I never found a need to try to save $3-4 by using one centered servo for ailerons. The aggravation of getting the linkage working right and getting the wing mounted with the linkage in the way just makes the price of one more servo seem insignificant.

Jack
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Old Aug 15, 2012, 08:55 PM
Addicted to building...
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Omaha Nebraska
Joined Feb 2006
5,992 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by mclarkson View Post
Thanks. So just short of 1" to just short of 1.5", then, correct? [sin(5)*(33/2)]
That will work good. I always use a machinist protactor made by General Tools (Lowes, and ACE carry them) during my builds to make building aides, templates, and to just check things as I go!

Fred

Oh, and just my 2 cents. Using two aileron servos is good, and great for flaperons, and builtup wings, especially if the airplane is larger and can handle the weight. But a single servo sure is not for saving money, because time to make torque rods, snakes, or bellcranks offsets the money real quick. Single aileron servos is more for weight savings, and often best for thinner wings and such. Ahhhhhh the life of decisions and designing airplanes........
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Old Aug 16, 2012, 10:26 PM
Emress
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United States, SD, Rapid City
Joined Nov 2011
1,935 Posts
so im planning an ISBB 42" (industrial strength) with the kmF3P wing.

so about what weight would i be looking for in 25mph (max) winds?

could i use 1/2in foam as im looking for a heavier, stronger, and wind fighting plane?

and im thinking of these motors all with 10x4.7 or 11x4.7 props:
D4023-850
HobbyKing Donkey ST3007-1100kv
KD A22-20L

i think most of these are for jackerbes, but anyone feel free to chime in.
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Old Aug 17, 2012, 05:24 PM
Emress
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United States, SD, Rapid City
Joined Nov 2011
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ok, got some 1/4in FFF for free but its a bit different than usual. what do you think? goes like this: plastic film-foam-plastic film- shiny foil cover. the shiny cover isn't separable from the plastic film. pics attached. im going for a ISBB42 build so i may just leave it all on?
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Old Aug 17, 2012, 07:25 PM
Jack
USA, ME, Ellsworth
Joined May 2008
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I have not see or used that foam but if it will work for you it will work for you.

I don't know about the non-removable foil, that sounds like it could be an issue for gluing as PU glues will not get into it like they do bare foam. Maybe an aerosol adhesive like 3M 77 (not cheap) or Duro 01-80188 (cheap) will work though. With those you could spray both surfaces and bring them into contact (with perfect "you only get one chance to get it right" alignment of course).

The rest of your plans sound viable. I'm not sure about the Donkey motors but the D4023 (and it's smaller brother the DT750) would be a good choice for power.

Jack
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Old Aug 17, 2012, 07:42 PM
Emress
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United States, SD, Rapid City
Joined Nov 2011
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the foil is removable if i take off the plastic film underneath it like i can on the other side. and i guess ill peel it all off as i need to get the glue "in the foam".

edit maybe not all of it because in your kmF3P thing you say to leave the "skin" out which would be less resistance. ok
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Old Aug 17, 2012, 11:16 PM
Must not buy more planes!
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USA, KS, Wichita
Joined Jul 2010
2,288 Posts
My niece came over this week to work on her plane some more. I gave her a sanding block and showed her how to know the corners off the leading edge. I got distracted for a minute, looking for something, and she says, "Is this how it's supposed to look?"



She'd sanded a big divot in the LE of one wing, about four inches wide and 1/2" deep. It looked like a shark had taken a bite out of it.
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Old Aug 18, 2012, 08:08 AM
Jack
USA, ME, Ellsworth
Joined May 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sirbow2 View Post
the foil is removable if i take off the plastic film underneath it like i can on the other side. and i guess ill peel it all off as i need to get the glue "in the foam".

edit maybe not all of it because in your kmF3P thing you say to leave the "skin" out which would be less resistance. ok
I like to use Performance Board III FFF that way, others prefer to peel all of the skin off.

I think, for the most part, that those that paint with spray paints are the people that peel and those that apply colored package sealing tape to add color prefer to leave the plastic skin in place. Once tape has been applied to the plastic skin it is generally not removable without taking the plastic skin off also.

So it comes down to preferences. Stronger, lighter, quicker, easier, and smoother or weaker, heavier, slower, more work, and more drag. Let the debate begin!



Jack
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Old Aug 20, 2012, 05:33 AM
Slipping the Surly Bonds
dz1sfb's Avatar
Attica, MI
Joined Dec 2006
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KFm3 BB42 monoblockless

Met up with Dave Sunday who purchased the first production monoblockless Blue Baby 42 with KFm3 wing. I got to fly it and all I can say is that it was a rock steady airplane. Very predictable and smooth. Gotta finish my own now.

Ken

Here are some pictures of his build and final product.
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Old Aug 20, 2012, 05:35 AM
Danish? Don't U eat that??
DKChris's Avatar
Denmark
Joined Jan 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jackerbes View Post
I like to use Performance Board III FFF that way, others prefer to peel all of the skin off.

I think, for the most part, that those that paint with spray paints are the people that peel and those that apply colored package sealing tape to add color prefer to leave the plastic skin in place. Once tape has been applied to the plastic skin it is generally not removable without taking the plastic skin off also.

So it comes down to preferences. Stronger, lighter, quicker, easier, and smoother or weaker, heavier, slower, more work, and more drag. Let the debate begin!



Jack
IMO you shouldn't regard the question of skin/no skin as preferences, but as extra possibilities to vary the strength/weight depending on what the model is to be used for and where strength or light weight is needed........I am still looking for foam with some sort of reasonably light covering usable to add strength like $tree foam or similar in this end of the world to be able to make some of the models where this is utilized - covering Depron with film or similar is just too expensive in the long run, and gluing stuff on gets heavy real fast......only real option i have is packing tape on depron, I guess.......
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Old Aug 20, 2012, 07:13 AM
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LaGrange, GA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sirbow2 View Post
goes like this: plastic film-foam-plastic film- shiny foil cover. the shiny cover isn't separable from the plastic film. pics attached. im going for a ISBB42 build so i may just leave it all on?
If that's an actual metallic foil, that could possibly wreak havoc with your RX. Might be ok if you can locate the antenna outside the plane, but it still might cause some interference problems.
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Old Aug 20, 2012, 07:44 AM
Jack
USA, ME, Ellsworth
Joined May 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DKChris View Post
IMO you shouldn't regard the question of skin/no skin as preferences, but as extra possibilities to vary the strength/weight depending on what the model is to be used for and where strength or light weight is needed........I am still looking for foam with some sort of reasonably light covering usable to add strength like $tree foam or similar in this end of the world to be able to make some of the models where this is utilized - covering Depron with film or similar is just too expensive in the long run, and gluing stuff on gets heavy real fast......only real option i have is packing tape on depron, I guess.......
I fully agree with you. I was speaking more or less in jest, there have been a number of debates here as to whether it is best to remove the skin or not.

Do you read the ** Kline-Fogleman (KFm) Airfoils - Building/Flying Discussion ** thread? That has a great number of wonderful examples of using the various foams and using various coverings.

The builds of davereap are a particularly good example of using Depron and covering in tape. Here is just one example:

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...postcount=4455

If you view one attachment and then scroll through the others to the right and left you will see many good examples. It is a long thread but there is some wonderful information there.

Jack
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Old Aug 20, 2012, 07:45 AM
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United States, AZ, Chino Valley
Joined Feb 2012
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RF issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnsPop View Post
If that's an actual metallic foil, that could possibly wreak havoc with your RX. Might be ok if you can locate the antenna outside the plane, but it still might cause some interference problems.
45 years experience in commercial two-way radio says: ' the foil WILL block your transmitter signal if you leave it on'. Murphy says it will do this when the plane is in the most awkward attitude for it to happen!
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Old Aug 20, 2012, 09:23 AM
Emress
sirbow2's Avatar
United States, SD, Rapid City
Joined Nov 2011
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well, good thing i took it all off. will be posting a build log soon.
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