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Old Jun 25, 2008, 09:29 PM
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Grafton, Il
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueFFF
Here's a question for all you experienced flyiers out there. What size wheels work well for a 42" BB landing on a rough grass field? The field is mowed, but its low quality grass with some balding areas. What do you think?

BlueFFF
I have 2.25 on my SuperCub which is basically a BB-42 size fuselage. I could easily go to 2.75 and still look like a bush plane. Use the foam wheels. I have the Dubro rubber ones in a 2.5 and 2.75 and they are way too heavy.
Mike

I took the smaller SuperCub wheels and put them on my BB-33. No waste!
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Old Jun 25, 2008, 09:29 PM
In Rc for a LONG TIME FFAA#1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueFFF
Here's a question for all you experienced flyiers out there. What size wheels work well for a 42" BB landing on a rough grass field? The field is mowed, but its low quality grass with some balding areas. What do you think?

BlueFFF
if you got some long streaches that are bald ( hopefully not on your head lol ) some 1.5 to 2.0 inch wheels will work, if there is low cut grass go to 2.5 - 3 inches or 3.5 if its longer
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Old Jun 25, 2008, 09:37 PM
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Blufff: My 42" sports 2.25" wheels and I fly off orchard grass cut to about 3" (pretty coarse) and they are marginal. She will want to nose over unless the grass is fresh cut. (I usually do a hand launch, don't bother with rog)

Just got a pool noodle and may try making wheels out of it as some have done, think they will come out about 3" and should be super light.

Laser: I figured that most won't want to glue their cams. Perhaps if you make the ply fit over most of the front surface and another piece over back surface screwed or rubber banded together, sandwiching cam in between. Will need a way to insure registration of servo to button, tho.
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Old Jun 25, 2008, 09:39 PM
Geaux Saints
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Grafton, Il
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Quote:
Originally Posted by laserman
if you got some long streaches that are bald ( hopefully not on your head lol ) some 1.5 to 2.0 inch wheels will work, if there is low cut grass go to 2.5 - 3 inches or 3.5 if its longer
Did you ever get that Corsair in the air?
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Old Jun 25, 2008, 09:44 PM
Geaux Saints
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Quote:
Originally Posted by springer
Just got a pool noodle and may try making wheels out of it as some have done, think they will come out about 3" and should be super light.
Now that sounds like an interesting solution. $ store is getting a visit tomorrow. ...and I have about 20 rims that need new rubber/foam!
Mike
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Old Jun 25, 2008, 09:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopalong X
Did you ever get that Corsair in the air?
not yet just got another rx for my dx 6 ( and i am waiting for the battery booster to arrive gives the dx6 a 5.5 run time instead of 2 hour) if you have a question on that let me know on what needs to be done for this mod to your spektrum dx 6
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Old Jun 25, 2008, 10:05 PM
Geaux Saints
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Quote:
Originally Posted by laserman
not yet just got another rx for my dx 6 ( and i am waiting for the battery booster to arrive gives the dx6 a 5.5 run time instead of 2 hour) if you have a question on that let me know on what needs to be done for this mod to your spektrum dx 6
That 2.4 stuff is too rich for my pocket book. Now if it helped my flying skills then maybe.....
Mike

I did get a short flight with my Bb-33 finally....then I dumb thumbed it on a turn. Left and down didn't work well.
Broke the motor mount and prop. It is glued back together but too much wind today.
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Old Jun 25, 2008, 10:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Hopalong X
That 2.4 stuff is too rich for my pocket book. Now if it helped my flying skills then maybe.....
mike
real fun part of this the part is only .25 cm thick x .5 cm x .75 cm and costs only 15 $
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Old Jun 25, 2008, 11:41 PM
If it flies, I will crash it
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BB33 Landing gear.

Need some input, What size wire have you guys been using for the landing gear on the BB33? I have .045 (seems way to small), .054, .060, .076 (seems way to big). I am thinking the .060 would suffice. Would this be to stiff? I have the Dubro 1-3/4" Super lites for tires. I hope they aren't to small, they looked big on the peg at the LHS but now that I have the fuse built they seem small.

Any way, what do you guys think on the gear?

Rob...
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Old Jun 26, 2008, 12:08 AM
BEC
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Wheels for grass: larger diameter is better. There are two approaches: really skinny ones to cut through the grass (like some of the spoked park flyer wheels) or really fat ones to go on top (Trexler balloon wheels). Both approaches work. The skinny parkflyer wheels are lighter and much less expensive and lower drag.

Gear wire diameter: at least the .062 stuff (1/16 inch). Depending on how heavy your airplane is, the .078 might be better (though for that you'll have to ream out those DuBros). But then, I expect the landing gear to work and hold up on my planes, so I tend to go higher. See my post a few pages back showing an alternate gear arrangement as borrowed, unchanged, from the Stevens Aero SQuiRT and SHAFT series of models.

Dihedral for the 33 inch KFm3 sport wing: I'm starting on one of those right now. In this post Tony said "at least 1/2 inch per tip". That's about 1.7 degrees of dihedral. Obviously if you were going to go three-channel it should be more like that of the UC wing.
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Old Jun 26, 2008, 12:31 AM
If it flies, I will crash it
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BEC
Gear wire diameter: at least the .062 stuff (1/16 inch). Depending on how heavy your airplane is, the .078 might be better (though for that you'll have to ream out those DuBros). But then, I expect the landing gear to work and hold up on my planes, so I tend to go higher. See my post a few pages back showing an alternate gear arrangement as borrowed, unchanged, from the Stevens Aero SQuiRT and SHAFT series of models.
Thanks for the input. The 0.60 sounded right and felt right. I will see if that is still the case after I bend them up. If it is to flexy I can always add a cross brace.

The Dubro wheels I purchased actually have the 1/8" axle holes. I got those so I can use a piece of brass tubing for the axle. It makes it a little easier to work with. I can bend up the wire flat and then solder the axle tubes at an angle to get some toe-in (I did research this, hope it actually works).

Rob...
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Old Jun 26, 2008, 12:43 AM
BEC
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Ah - I was thinking of the DuBro Micro or Parkflyer or whatever they're called wheels....
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Old Jun 26, 2008, 01:08 AM
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most of us, if not all of us, fly from grass fields where bush style wheels are required for rog takeoffs. whenever i try to go for the "balloon wheel" approach, the axle holes on currently available "big wheels" are always way too large for small parkflyer landing gear wire. it would be great if there were parkflyer sized "bush plane" wheels to choose from (big and light, with a very small axle hole... we can easily drill them out). i bet many of us would buy 'em up if someone produced 'em... i could use 2 pairs for my bbap and my pirahna.

kev
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Old Jun 26, 2008, 02:40 AM
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mike & BEC thanks for the reply. going to write it down this time

thanks
gramps
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Old Jun 26, 2008, 03:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mxspode
Thanks for the input. The 0.60 sounded right and felt right. I will see if that is still the case after I bend them up. If it is to flexy I can always add a cross brace.

The Dubro wheels I purchased actually have the 1/8" axle holes. I got those so I can use a piece of brass tubing for the axle. It makes it a little easier to work with. I can bend up the wire flat and then solder the axle tubes at an angle to get some toe-in (I did research this, hope it actually works).

Rob...
2.25mm or approx 0.09" used on my 33 ...... I made the gear out of a clothes hanger ....... the type you get from dry cleaning type service stores .... seems plenty strong and looks ok too ....

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Old Jun 26, 2008, 09:37 AM
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A little video of my 2nd shakedown flight in BBAP #3.

A day without crashing is day to repeat!

Blu-Baby 60" AP #3 2nd Shakedown Flight (4 min 36 sec)


Since this video I changed out the motor and put this screechy motor in the backup bin.

Enjoy!

PS
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Old Jun 26, 2008, 10:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpinningInPres
A little video of my 2nd shakedown flight in BBAP #3.

A day without crashing is day to repeat!

http://www.vimeo.com/1235423

Since this video,I changed out the motor and put this screechy motor in the backup bin.

Enjoy!

PS
First class video, camera and of course the BB Plane ....

well done .....
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Old Jun 26, 2008, 10:10 AM
I'm not flying backwards!
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Very nice Patrick!
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Old Jun 26, 2008, 11:46 PM
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More pics from today in Prescott Valley taken with BBAP 60"

A couple of pics I took today...the self portrait is the BB going by on landing...my dubious friend is leaving the flight line quickly fearing for his life as the fiersome BB approaches...

PS
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Old Jun 27, 2008, 05:01 AM
Went to mow a meadow
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpinningInPres
A couple of pics I took today...the self portrait is the BB going by on landing...my dubious friend is leaving the flight line quickly fearing for his life as the fiersome BB approaches...

PS
Great pics as usual
Looks pretty windy in the first one, the tree in the background is bending really well
What do you reckon the wind speed was?

Cheers
Frank
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Old Jun 27, 2008, 08:57 AM
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It was windy...about 15 mph I figure. Not the most enjoyable, but the BB can take it.

Ps
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Old Jun 27, 2008, 12:58 PM
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Cange from floats to wheels with only two screws!
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Old Jun 27, 2008, 01:40 PM
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Tomas; Have you flown your BB of water yet? I am curious how it handles take offs and landings with the floats. I am thinking of putting floats on my BB33 and taking it to the lake on vacation

Nice set up on the gear. Obviously an experienced hand.

Rob...
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Old Jun 27, 2008, 09:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by laserman
those that have the BB AP and use a servo to trigger your camera could some one show there setup. i am about to get my bb ap flying ( attempted a Maiden to day ) and would like to be able to trigger the camera from my remote with out haveint to open the camera to hook things just would like to see a setup that uses a servo to press the button
thanks
laser man
Here's my servo trigger setup, laserman.

PS
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Old Jun 27, 2008, 10:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpinningInPres
Here's my servo trigger setup, laserman.

PS

thanks will have to look into this setup and mod it so its using a ply cover so it does not affect the cam as i also carry the cam with me most of the time so i need it to not to have things glued to it permently, that is why i would like one that uses ply the cam i have is the polaroid i630, thanks for the pics , oh yes had a busy day had a face to face interview with RIM for a job, and then went to the IMAA rally of the giants in arnprior which is running till sunday as well as the national capital air show was able to get in close to see a us herc come in for a short field landing he was passing the highway at about 30 foot over the road and just slammed the pitch to reverse at about 10 ft off the deck and smacked down on the runway!!!
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Old Jun 28, 2008, 02:21 AM
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i have winds in the 10-15 mile range constantly. is there any recomendations for a litlle stronger motor,esc, batt set-up from hc. the 24gram 1300 kv blu wonder seem a little weak for the bb33

thanks
gramps
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Old Jun 28, 2008, 04:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpinningInPres
Here's my servo trigger setup, laserman.

PS
I like the Lipo idea ..... my batteries on a Canon A560 weigh in at 60g ......

just had a look at 300 Mah single cell lipo's on HC and they come in at 7g (and a cost of 3.00 dollars) ..... that's some saving in weight ....

Is the use of single cell lipos routine practice on AP work ...... voltage ok etc etc ....

It certainly seems a good idea to me .....
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Old Jun 28, 2008, 08:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hobie14
I like the Lipo idea ..... my batteries on a Canon A560 weigh in at 60g ......

just had a look at 300 Mah single cell lipo's on HC and they come in at 7g (and a cost of 3.00 dollars) ..... that's some saving in weight ....

Is the use of single cell lipos routine practice on AP work ...... voltage ok etc etc ....

It certainly seems a good idea to me .....
I don't know about routine, but I calculated that I could shoot for about 2 hours straight with that lipo on there. I actually fried one cell in a 3 pack, disassembled it and voila...new camera battery...it works great and lasts for several flights.

The voltage seems to work fine for the camera.

PS
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Old Jun 28, 2008, 08:39 AM
I'm not flying backwards!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gramps45
i have winds in the 10-15 mile range constantly. is there any recomendations for a litlle stronger motor,esc, batt set-up from hc. the 24gram 1300 kv blu wonder seem a little weak for the bb33

thanks
gramps
Gramps, which wing do you have on your BB33?

Tony
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Old Jun 28, 2008, 10:21 AM
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tony the wing i'm using is the uc. the hard time i'm having in the wind probably has alot to do with my inexperince.
i'm building another bb33 with the kfm3 wing but not quite finish.
my bb33's are built from elmers foamboard with the paper removed. the foam is about 3/16" dont''t know mm. using deans & the 3.5 gold conn. for electonics and marking pens to decorate. so i don't think theres to much added weight. any suggestions while be greatly appreciated

thanks
gramps
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Old Jun 28, 2008, 10:51 AM
/bin/ksh
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Gramps, let us know how the kfm3 wing works for you, I'm flying the UC wing as well on a BB42 and find it does just fine in winds up to 10mph or so then gets harder to fly at 15mph winds but I can still manage it and get her down with throttle/stick management into the wind. I plan on going to a kfm wing at some point but love how it flies on a UC wing now.

Steve
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Old Jun 28, 2008, 11:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Steve_C
Gramps, let us know how the kfm3 wing works for you, I'm flying the UC wing as well on a BB42 and find it does just fine in winds up to 10mph or so then gets harder to fly at 15mph winds but I can still manage it and get her down with throttle/stick management into the wind. I plan on going to a kfm wing at some point but love how it flies on a UC wing now.

Steve

steve i will definetly post when i fly with the kfm3 wing. i think the problem i'm having in the wind is with my inexperience. i only have about 30 mins. solo time and i'm trying to fly my bb33 by my self. my other plane i fly is the easy star. i'm waiting for the wind to really die down

thanks
gramps
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Old Jun 28, 2008, 11:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by laserman
thanks will have to look into this setup and mod it so its using a ply cover so it does not affect the cam as i also carry the cam with me most of the time so i need it to not to have things glued to it permently, that is why i would like one that uses ply the cam i have is the polaroid i630, thanks for the pics , oh yes had a busy day had a face to face interview with RIM for a job, and then went to the IMAA rally of the giants in arnprior which is running till sunday as well as the national capital air show was able to get in close to see a us herc come in for a short field landing he was passing the highway at about 30 foot over the road and just slammed the pitch to reverse at about 10 ft off the deck and smacked down on the runway!!!
LM.... here's a photo of EyP3's camera setup .....

looks a nice setup that can be dismantled and you
would never know a servo had been used with it ....

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Old Jun 28, 2008, 11:46 AM
I'm not flying backwards!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gramps45
tony the wing i'm using is the uc. the hard time i'm having in the wind probably has alot to do with my inexperince.
i'm building another bb33 with the kfm3 wing but not quite finish.
my bb33's are built from elmers foamboard with the paper removed. the foam is about 3/16" dont''t know mm. using deans & the 3.5 gold conn. for electonics and marking pens to decorate. so i don't think theres to much added weight. any suggestions while be greatly appreciated

thanks
gramps
Gramps, there's your issues. First, flying in the wind does take a little experience and two, the BB33 with the UC wing is a light winds airplane. As the wind affects an aircraft relative to its stall and flying speeds, a very slow moving plane like the BB33 will be affected by wind.

This isn't a problem and it is how it should be. The BB33 is a primary trainer and is supposed to be slow. Aerodynamically, it's pretty hard to get something for nothing. Wind sensitivity is the price you pay for its extreme easiness to fly and exceptional stability.

The solutions are twofold: Put a KFm3 wing on it (particularly with ailerons) and secondly, get a little more flying experience to handle the increased speeds and maneuverability.

Tony
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Old Jun 28, 2008, 08:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony65x55
Gramps, there's your issues. First, flying in the wind does take a little experience and two, the BB33 with the UC wing is a light winds airplane. As the wind affects an aircraft relative to its stall and flying speeds, a very slow moving plane like the BB33 will be affected by wind.

This isn't a problem and it is how it should be. The BB33 is a primary trainer and is supposed to be slow. Aerodynamically, it's pretty hard to get something for nothing. Wind sensitivity is the price you pay for its extreme easiness to fly and exceptional stability.

The solutions are twofold: Put a KFm3 wing on it (particularly with ailerons) and secondly, get a little more flying experience to handle the increased speeds and maneuverability.

Tony

thanks tony i'm already working on your 1st solution and will definitely put in alot more time and practice into the second solution. thanks alot for your help. will keep everyone posted.

thanks
gramps
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Old Jun 28, 2008, 09:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hobie14
LM.... here's a photo of EyP3's camera setup .....

looks a nice setup that can be dismantled and you
would never know a servo had been used with it ....



thanks hobie that is what i am looking for thanks
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Old Jun 28, 2008, 09:35 PM
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Hey Tony,

I finally got around to building one of these fine planes today. Even in the
overabundance of wind this evening, I could tell she was a keeper for sure.*G*
Gonna cut out a set of patterns tonight and build a couple more tomorrow. One
for my son and one for a new friend looking to learn the sport. Thanks for the
sweet design. Warm regards, Jim
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Old Jun 28, 2008, 11:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony65x55
...The solutions are twofold: Put a KFm3 wing on it (particularly with ailerons) and secondly, get a little more flying experience to handle the increased speeds and maneuverability.

Tony
i didn't know you designed a kfm3 for the bb33. how's it compare to the kfm1? after being absorbed in another build for a spell, i'm rusty on my kf terminology. kf is one step on bottom, kfm is one step on top, kfm3 is 2 steps on top, what was kfm2 (thicker single step)? is dick going to adopt the pirahna's wing as a kfm4?

sorry for all the trivial ?'s, but i hate to give someone conflicting advice.
kev
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Old Jun 29, 2008, 12:27 AM
BEC
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Got the very last flight of the day at this event with my BB 33UC - out shooting touch and goes in both directions on the thick grass as the eveing was cool and calm (unlike the afternoon which was neither). Such a relaxing way to end the day. There is nothing else like a lightly loaded undercambed wing three-channel airplane for relaxation - at least for me.

Finally had to stop because of approaching darkness and mosquitos.....
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Old Jun 29, 2008, 02:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BEC
Got the very last flight of the day at this event with my BB 33UC - out shooting touch and goes in both directions on the thick grass as the eveing was cool and calm (unlike the afternoon which was neither). Such a relaxing way to end the day. There is nothing else like a lightly loaded undercambed wing three-channel airplane for relaxation - at least for me.

Finally had to stop because of approaching darkness and mosquitos.....
What a wonderfull day you guys had ...... the club strip reminds me so much of our own but without the Mountain .....

brilliant photos on your link .....
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Old Jun 29, 2008, 07:03 AM
I'm not flying backwards!
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Oshawa, Canada
Joined Sep 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Hatch
Hey Tony,

I finally got around to building one of these fine planes today. Even in the
overabundance of wind this evening, I could tell she was a keeper for sure.*G*
Gonna cut out a set of patterns tonight and build a couple more tomorrow. One
for my son and one for a new friend looking to learn the sport. Thanks for the
sweet design. Warm regards, Jim
Thanks Jim, you'd be hard pressed to find an easier plane to train a newbie on or simply toodle around with. I'm glad you like her. When you get some calm air I think you'll discover what all the enthusiasm is about.

Tony
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Old Jun 29, 2008, 07:30 AM
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Attica, MI
Joined Dec 2006
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Blu-Baby Fun Fly-in is still on

To all concerned,

The weather has been quite variable here in Southeast Michigan, but the front moved through here last night and though overcast, it seems stable enough to enjoy this event. So, onward, and forward.

Hope you have time in your schedule Tony, but understand if it is not possible. What kind of distance would you have to travel?

Springer has asked if it is still on PMed him just before this.

Leadfeather is planning of fitting this in, as he is in the Detroit eare this weekend.

SGTalon is on as long as we are not having thunderstorms.

Randy my co-worker a dedicated BB flier is going to be there.

Hope any others in the Detroit Metro area can attend, Pictures and video to follow.

See you there,
Ken
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Old Jun 29, 2008, 07:37 AM
I'm not flying backwards!
Tony65x55's Avatar
Oshawa, Canada
Joined Sep 2004
3,753 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Truglodite
i didn't know you designed a kfm3 for the bb33. how's it compare to the kfm1? after being absorbed in another build for a spell, i'm rusty on my kf terminology. kf is one step on bottom, kfm is one step on top, kfm3 is 2 steps on top, what was kfm2 (thicker single step)? is dick going to adopt the pirahna's wing as a kfm4?

sorry for all the trivial ?'s, but i hate to give someone conflicting advice.
kev
No problem:

1. KF - The original patented Kline Fogelman Airfoil - Sharp LE and TE, bottom step at 40% undercut. Poor performance, i.e., pitch hunting, low lift

2 KFm1 - The Kline Fogelman (modified) (first variation) - Step on the bottom at 40% chord, rounded LE, flat top, camber on bottom only. Virtually stall proof, very stable, moderate lift, low divergence, simple build.

3. KFm2 - The Kline Fogelman (modified) (2nd variation) - Step on top at 50% chord, rounded LE, flat bottom, camber on top only. Benign stall, very stable, good lift, low divergence, Simple build

4. KFm3 - The Kline Fogelman (modified) (3rd variation) - Two steps on top at 50% and 75% chord, rounded LE, flat bottom, camber on upper surface only. Benign stall, very stable, Excellent lift, low divergence, slightly more complicated build but worth it.

5. KFm4 - The Kline Fogelman (modified) (4th variation) - Step top and bottom at 50% chord, rounded LE, camber top and bottom. Virtually stall proof, very stable, good lift, zero divergence, fully symmetrical aerobatic airfoil, excellent inverted performance, responsive. Simple build.

6. KFm5 (IN DEVELOPMENT) Kline Fogelman (modified) (5th variation) - Gentle undercamber about 3-40, top step at 50%, rounded LE, camber top and bottom. Characteristics TBD.

There are diagrams of each of these on the first page of the Kline Fogelman flying wing thread as well as an excellent analysis by Rich Thompson of the characteristics of each foil. *

* The KFm4 foil was built way too thick and as a result, its performance suffered greatly in the testing. The Piranha illustrates how it performs at its correct thickness.

Tony
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Old Jun 29, 2008, 07:44 AM
I'm not flying backwards!
Tony65x55's Avatar
Oshawa, Canada
Joined Sep 2004
3,753 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by dz1sfb
To all concerned,

The weather has been quite variable here in Southeast Michigan, but the front moved through here last night and though overcast, it seems stable enough to enjoy this event. So, onward, and forward.

Hope you have time in your schedule Tony, but understand if it is not possible. What kind of distance would you have to travel?

Springer has asked if it is still on PMed him just before this.

Leadfeather is planning of fitting this in, as he is in the Detroit eare this weekend.

SGTalon is on as long as we are not having thunderstorms.

Randy my co-worker a dedicated BB flier is going to be there.

Hope any others in the Detroit Metro area can attend, Pictures and video to follow.

See you there,
Ken
Ken, I would love to come and meet all you guys but as I suspected, after a week on the road, Mrs. Bear has other plans. I almost made it though (lol). Next time for sure! It is about 4 1/2 hours drive each way but I have some good friends in Windsor so we'd just go down for the weekend to visit ( and buy FFF). I would really like to be there so next time, make sure you let me know. You might want to post a Google map so others can find the place.

Good luck with the weather!

Tony
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Old Jun 29, 2008, 08:02 AM
Slipping the Surly Bonds
dz1sfb's Avatar
Attica, MI
Joined Dec 2006
10,337 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony65x55
Ken, I would love to come and meet all you guys but as I suspected, after a week on the road, Mrs. Bear has other plans. I almost made it though (lol). Next time for sure! It is about 4 1/2 hours drive each way but I have some good friends in Windsor so we'd just go down for the weekend to visit ( and buy FFF). I would really like to be there so next time, make sure you let me know. You might want to post a Google map so others can find the place.

Good luck with the weather!

Tony
Totally understand and appreciate your stand.
Here is a link to Google map
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&hl=e...1&ie=UTF8&z=14

Remember to drive into the Church parking lot using the North driveway, and look for the FFF.

Ken
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Old Jun 29, 2008, 03:00 PM
In Rc for a LONG TIME FFAA#1
laserman's Avatar
Canada, ON, Ottawa
Joined Jun 2004
1,375 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony65x55
Ken, I would love to come and meet all you guys but as I suspected, after a week on the road, Mrs. Bear has other plans. I almost made it though (lol). Next time for sure! It is about 4 1/2 hours drive each way but I have some good friends in Windsor so we'd just go down for the weekend to visit ( and buy FFF). I would really like to be there so next time, make sure you let me know. You might want to post a Google map so others can find the place.

Good luck with the weather!

Tony
well tony hope you will be here in ottawa soon so we can hook up and maybe if i still haven't maidened my bb ap you will be here for that is the weather is good!!! and hope you do get down to get some fff before you come as i am waiting for some hehehe just s gentle reminder to grab a stack for me
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Old Jun 29, 2008, 05:41 PM
Registered Aircraft Offender
Truglodite's Avatar
Carmichael, CA
Joined Feb 2007
3,508 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony65x55
No problem:

1. KF - The original patented Kline Fogelman Airfoil - Sharp LE and TE, bottom step at 40% undercut. Poor performance, i.e., pitch hunting, low lift

2 KFm1 - The Kline Fogelman (modified) (first variation) - Step on the bottom at 40% chord, rounded LE, flat top, camber on bottom only. Virtually stall proof, very stable, moderate lift, low divergence, simple build.

3. KFm2 - The Kline Fogelman (modified) (2nd variation) - Step on top at 50% chord, rounded LE, flat bottom, camber on top only. Benign stall, very stable, good lift, low divergence, Simple build

4. KFm3 - The Kline Fogelman (modified) (3rd variation) - Two steps on top at 50% and 75% chord, rounded LE, flat bottom, camber on upper surface only. Benign stall, very stable, Excellent lift, low divergence, slightly more complicated build but worth it.

5. KFm4 - The Kline Fogelman (modified) (4th variation) - Step top and bottom at 50% chord, rounded LE, camber top and bottom. Virtually stall proof, very stable, good lift, zero divergence, fully symmetrical aerobatic airfoil, excellent inverted performance, responsive. Simple build.

6. KFm5 (IN DEVELOPMENT) Kline Fogelman (modified) (5th variation) - Gentle undercamber about 3-40, top step at 50%, rounded LE, camber top and bottom. Characteristics TBD.

There are diagrams of each of these on the first page of the Kline Fogelman flying wing thread as well as an excellent analysis by Rich Thompson of the characteristics of each foil. *

* The KFm4 foil was built way too thick and as a result, its performance suffered greatly in the testing. The Piranha illustrates how it performs at its correct thickness.

Tony
thanks a bunch tony, now i have the bigger picture.

i'd love to help test the kfm5 with my bbap, but i still haven't found fff (blucor or pb3). i've stopped by 5 different lowe's stores in central CA to get supplies for work the past 2 weeks. none of them had pb3 in stock. next step is going to my local lowes to order some. until then, i'll have only epp & depron on hand. hopefully the kfm5 will be more ironed out by then.

kev

[edit: btw, i'd take variable weather over what we've had in california the past week. lately we're less worried if our planes can handle the wind, and more worried if our lungs can handle the smoke. *cough cough* i think all the smoke also makes the air thicker... yesterday my scrappy wing felt bogged down.

i'm sure the CDF could make use AP to help control the fires. i'll volunteer!]
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Old Jun 29, 2008, 05:56 PM
Geaux Saints
Hopalong X's Avatar
Grafton, Il
Joined Nov 2007
1,913 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Truglodite
i'm sure the CDF could make use AP to help control the fires. i'll volunteer!]
Watch out for scorched tail feathers.
Mike
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Old Jun 29, 2008, 06:09 PM
I'm not flying backwards!
Tony65x55's Avatar
Oshawa, Canada
Joined Sep 2004
3,753 Posts
Kev, a quick internet search shows the following Lowes stores have fan fold.

Called Blulinx, Part # 127129 Price $31.79

LOWE'S OF DUBLIN, CA, #2273
3750 DUBLIN BOULEVARD
DUBLIN, CA 94568

LOWE'S OF MODESTO, CA, #1086
3801 PELANDALE AVENUE
MODESTO, CA 95356

Enjoy! BTW, your local store will order it for you from another store if you don't mind waiting a couple of days.

Tony
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Old Jun 30, 2008, 12:56 AM
If it flies, I will crash it
mxspode's Avatar
USA, CO, Westminster
Joined Jan 2008
3,017 Posts
Well another Blu-Baby is ready to fly (I hope ). I have a few details to take care of like adding some windows and some color, oh and a battery hatch might be nice. I will fly it tomorrow weather permitting and see how she does. Should be fun.

Rob...
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