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Old Oct 22, 2007, 02:57 PM
Micro Flyer "Q"
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United States, MD, Silver Spring
Joined Sep 2003
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I believe that the BB wings as originally conceived were undercambered (UC) and also with a flat (KFm) variation. Undercambered is one sheet of foam where the builder will "roll" the undercamber as listed somewhere else in this thread.

The KFm wing is flat with a section of it folded over itself part way, the method is also shown somewhere else in the thread. Both are very easy to construct and IMHO add to the beauty and simplicity of the BB's design.

Some are building theirs airfoiled, like the wings we see in some arfs. some are flat bottom (Clark Y) semisymetrical or fully symetrical. Nice looking and very effective, but also more complicated to put together.

My wing is going to be a flat one (KFm) since I like simplicity very much.
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Old Oct 22, 2007, 03:09 PM
Out the Window
High Flyin''s Avatar
North Central Florida
Joined Jul 2004
1,271 Posts
To Much Curve???

I was just looking at my Blue-Baby with a 4-40 wing. I noticed that the wing has more curve in it than the plans show. It has maybe 1/4 to 3/8 more curve than the shape of the body on the plans. Will that make it fly strange? What effect will that have on the airplane in the air?

I may cut the curve off of the body sides and try a KF wing after I give the 4-40 a go.

Thanks,
Ray
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Old Oct 22, 2007, 03:12 PM
Always Ready!
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Chicago, IL
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More curve = more lift = more drag = slower cruising speed. It's a slow-flier anyway, so you should be okay.
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Old Oct 22, 2007, 03:40 PM
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Strongsville, OH
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so can i pass with no airfoil?
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Old Oct 22, 2007, 03:45 PM
Micro Flyer "Q"
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United States, MD, Silver Spring
Joined Sep 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ihor14448
so can i pass with no airfoil?
YEP!
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Old Oct 22, 2007, 03:52 PM
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Strongsville, OH
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yey! but will it affect the flight? i wanted a slowflyer
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Old Oct 22, 2007, 05:15 PM
Micro Flyer "Q"
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United States, MD, Silver Spring
Joined Sep 2003
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Both will fly slow, they are trainers. You want a bit slower still? Then go for the UC wing. You can't go wrong either way.
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Old Oct 22, 2007, 05:29 PM
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Thanks :d
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Old Oct 22, 2007, 06:46 PM
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You see I'm a glutton for punishment. I enjoy building as much as flying. My built up wing will be almost as light as an undercambered wing from FFF. I haven't built a KF wing yet. But I might just put one on my 48 1/2" BB cause I haven't cut the wing yet.
I want it all. Lift and ailerons. So Clark-Y with ailerons it shall be on the 39 !/2" one. Motors, ESC's & servos should be here this week from UH. Shipped the 19th
& thanks on the info about the ailerons being part of the chord. I wasn't sure.

Ken
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Old Oct 22, 2007, 10:27 PM
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Carmichael, CA
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hi all, just popped in for a quick flight report. i installed my kda 20-22L motor in my bbap1 60" UC about a week ago. today i finally had the combination of weather & time off work to give it a test flight. on a fully charged hxt d9 3s2200, with apc 10x4.7sf she weighed in 24oz AUW. flew nice as usual, but this time i was able to stay up until the lvc kicked in, for a flight of 29min 47sec (not bad eh?). climbout was drastically improved as well; i'd say 75-80deg climb rate WOT. next time i'll be adding a 10oz dummy camera load, which i think she'll handle with the greatest ease. i'm almost done playing with the UC wing; my next step will be chopping the saddle & installing a kfm2 for easier ap handling (i'm slowly learning why easy going flight characteristics are so imortant with ap).

as usual, i couldn't resist taking my bb airborne rangers up for another parachute drop. just like the last mission involving 3 fatalities, 2 rangers perished even though i packed their chutes better this time around (moment of silence/21 gun salute...). i think the problem was caused by packing the plastic chutes a week before, then dropping them without "exercising" them first. so the lines extended fully, but the chutes stayed bundled tight the whole way down, failing to slow the fall. next time i'll have to give 'em a test throw before takeoff to make sure they float down. whew, having a successful paratrooper mission can be quite involved; i guess on my first mission my paratroopers were just lucky.

kev
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Old Oct 22, 2007, 11:04 PM
I'm not flying backwards!
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Oshawa, Canada
Joined Sep 2004
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Kev, you're funny. I can just picture the hapless pico-Rangers plummeting to earth.

Thanks for the report on the KDA20-22L. It sounds like a real winner in this plane. If you're losing the UC wing for your BBAP1, I strongly suggest you check out the KFm3 wing on the BBAP2. It is fantastic and I think Kendall would second this opinion. It is only a little more work and weight and is "Blu-Baby Tough". Best of all it's flight performance is simply wonderful. Try it, you'll like it. If you need plans for a KFm3 wing for the BBAP1, I can bang 'em out for you in minutes (several minutes).

Tony
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Old Oct 23, 2007, 06:02 AM
gpw
“There’s no place like Foam”
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KF, Great idea !!!! Sure , Plans !!!!
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Old Oct 23, 2007, 02:12 PM
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Carmichael, CA
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hehe, tony, if only you could be there to watch them fall... this time i had enough altitude & no wind, so i was able to take my eyes off the plane & spot their landing about 250yards away from where i was standing. i didn't bother recovering them since the grass was too tall. now i must find a way to quel the mutiny among what's left of my platoon; they must learn to be proud of their valor.

right, 2 step=kfm3, that's what i meant to say instead of kfm2. i'd also like a set of plans if it's not too much trouble (please). besides stability, i'm also looking forward to removing those struts from the camera's view.

thanks in advance,
kev
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Old Oct 23, 2007, 02:48 PM
Postcards From The Purple Edge
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United States, OK, Sand Springs
Joined May 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony65x55
...I strongly suggest you check out the KFm3 wing on the BBAP2. It is fantastic and I think Kendall would second this opinion. It is only a little more work and weight and is "Blu-Baby Tough"....
Yep. I sure would. I'll be curious to see what you come up with for an AUW once the KFm3 is on. I'm 26oz without the camera mount and I don't see how I could lighten her up other than re-doing the fuse with a 1" monoblock. And I'm not sure that would be the right thing to do structurally.

Kev, almost 30 minutes on a 3S/2200 is outstanding! Carrying the camera at Fort Adams that day I hit the LVC (by accident--got mixed up and re-installed a used bat) around 23 minutes with an AUW of 32oz. I've never let her go to LVC with an empty cargo bay, but I'd sure be happy with that flight time.

How high do you drop your wee rangers? With the typical wind around here if I drop from over 200' AGL the little guys are headed out to sea.

kendall
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Old Oct 23, 2007, 06:16 PM
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Carmichael, CA
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well i'm already at 24oz with that 3s2200. not sure what the weight difference is between the 2 wings since one has cf struts & the other will have a spruce spar. if i can stay near 30oz like you did, i'm sure i'll have plenty of power, lift, & flight time to work with.

i normally like to start my approach with enough juice to go around for another try. that flight i planned to hit the lvc hard so i know where to program my timers. as usual, when i'm experimenting with potential dead stick situations, i stayed high & upwind. actually i flew downwind several times until after 20min elapsed; from my experience with the bp21, i knew this configuration would pass 20min without a doubt. i was ~800ft aloft, 1000' upwind, when the soft cutoff lvc forced me to bring it in (stopped holding altitude at WOT). even after 3x 500' radius "victory circles" 30' high, during flare the battery felt like it recovered enough during the descent for another take on the approach if it was required. adding 10% throttle during flare (fully extended flaps btw) unexpectedly popped me up another 3'... like 3min after the lvc kicked in, with those foolish victory circles! i like the giant capacity minimal current thing; it's very relaxing knowing i don't have to make a b-line to the deck if i hit the lvc.

i usually drop those parachute men at least 300' high & upwind. i try to guess where to release them so they will land nearby. the last drop was around 1200' high, 900' out (best guess). yesterday we were blessed with what was as close to no wind as i've ever seen in sacramento; plus they fall much closer to the release point when their chutes don't open up. landing at sea? i'd strap a chute on a toy inflatable boat and throw some troops in. a lilliputian amphibiuous attack!

kev

[edit: btw, the same conditions that are currently creating epic flying weather in central california, are wreaking havoc for our firefighters in the LA area. so in a way, i feel guilty having no wind outside.]
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