Espritmodel.com Telemetry Radio
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Old Apr 05, 2007, 06:51 PM
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rhagen's Avatar
Owings, MD
Joined Nov 2004
241 Posts
Looks fantastic Steve, can't wait to add it to my Shumate fleet (F-18, F-14, T-38, Dr-1)!

I was just looking over my printed copy of the plans. You must get bigger sheets of depron out west, looks like a 30 x 24 piece is needed for the wing. Us east coast guys who buy from RCFoam in Georgia only get 13x 39 pieces. I guess I could just make a break at the carbon rod? - looks like that would work.
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Old Apr 06, 2007, 10:14 AM
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Joined Jan 2006
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Wow Steve! Talk about flight control options. Your work makes glow models seem obsolete! Who would have ever guessed that it could take 1 full day to program a foamy?! That's at least what it would take me to figure out your setup with the program mixes with lots of references to the JR manual. Your work is incredible.

With rudders, differential thrust, and 1.7 thrust/weight ratio, I think you'll be flat spinning this model UP to your next manuever!

Thank you for sharing all of your work (again) and the detailed information/pictures of what it takes to get one of these in the air with all the possible flight control choices.
Sincerely,
Bob
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Old Apr 06, 2007, 11:48 AM
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Seattle, WA
Joined Jun 2002
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rhagen - Wow, you're one of the few to have built my park jets AND the Dr-1! As for foam, I ordered a case of Depron a couple years ago with full size sheets (26 x 39) so that's what I use. Even after all my park jets, I've still only used a little more than half the case... By the way, the Su-37 requires a LOT of foam due to it's size and part count. I used 2 1/2 full sheets of foam for mine, so I'd recommend planning on 3 sheets to be safe. And yes, splitting the wing in half would work fine. Just make sure to cut multiple tabs and slots to keep the joint strong. I generally add several .5" deep x 1.5" tabs (as you can see on the front of the Su-37 wing).

Bob - My sentiments exactly! Glow models really are obsolete in my mind. I'm doing things now that just wouldn't be practical with glow engines. I've got a fleet of glow airplanes I've tried to sell, but haven't had much luck so far... You're more than welcome for the plans and details! I haven't yet tried a climbing flat spin, but I certainly will next time I fly this bird!
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Old Apr 06, 2007, 04:25 PM
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Joined Oct 2006
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IM SOOoOOooOO excited!!! Im cutting everything out right now and cant wait to put this sucker together!!! Just as soon as I finish the 115% f-15 that is Steve, your work is truly amazing and we all appreciate the time you take out to share with us. WOW....thats all I can say on this one...WOW WOW WOW!!!!

Steve: What kind of radio are you using? Have you tried a DX-6 or DX-7? Would either of these provide the mixing capabilities for this project? Im about to order a new radio...my VG6000 isnt cutting it
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Old Apr 06, 2007, 05:32 PM
I fly therefore I crash
fletchace's Avatar
Torrance, CA
Joined Sep 2006
919 Posts
Well first off I would like to thank you Steve for the excellent plans. I am so glad you decided to model this plane, one of my favorites. Now for those of you who disdain EPP, look away now. This is going to be my third parkjet made out of EPP and hopefully it will have the legs of the other two. I am going to leave off a lot of the detail pieces and simplify the build. I am also going to put more carbon rods in this one, a lesson I learned from the other two EPP jets. The flex presents itself as a uncontrolled hard dive from level flight at speed which has caused many a crash. Hopefully it will pull the flex out without negating the benificial effects of the EPP. I am about halfway through.

Fletch
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Old Apr 06, 2007, 06:47 PM
Pushing the Limits of FFF
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United States, CA, Sierra Madre
Joined Jun 2005
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Steve,

WOW, What a masterful job on your plans and build. And to the first builders, nice job on yours also. I think that this is your best one yet. I just happen to have a couple of the little screamers motors that need a home. Would it be possible to build this with the twin motors but without the differential rudder thrust. I would still do the variable pitch with the motors but install rudders instead. I think that I just found my next build after I maiden the 175% F-15 tommorow. Do you know if lucien will be adding this to his list of larger scale plans? Again, thanks for the great parkjets.

John
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Old Apr 06, 2007, 10:20 PM
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You've had a major impact of making glow models obsolete. That can only mean better motor/battery/esc technology being developed and for less money! This needed to happen. Flying fields are being squeezed, as is ours, by development. I'm tired of moving from field to field, continually being bumped and complained about by the locals who just moved in. Combine this with incredible performance and thinking outside the glow power box, you have changed this hobby, captured declining interest, and breathed new life into RC airplane flying. That's true with this flyer anyway.
Sincerely,
Bob LeBlanc
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Old Apr 06, 2007, 11:06 PM
DELTAS RULE
corsair nut's Avatar
tehachapi, CA
Joined Jan 2006
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steve are, you going to paint yours or what? dont leave us hanging on the video!
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Old Apr 07, 2007, 01:03 AM
It's a trap!
GotrekGurnisson's Avatar
Brisbane, Australia
Joined Feb 2006
3,143 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by boa279
Steve: What kind of radio are you using? Have you tried a DX-6 or DX-7? Would either of these provide the mixing capabilities for this project? Im about to order a new radio...my VG6000 isnt cutting it
Steve uses a 9ch Futaba I think. I don't think a DX7 (let alone a DX6) would be able to take the same number of custom mixes.
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Old Apr 07, 2007, 01:27 AM
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Seattle, WA
Joined Jun 2002
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boa - GG's right--I use a Futaba 9CH and couldn't recommend it high enough. Extremely flexible radio. I haven't yet tried a DX7. I'd really like to, but I'm too entrenched with Futaba receivers (over a dozen) to change over. A DX6 or DX7 doesn't have enough custom mixes to set up the Su-37 with separate TV and stabilators like mine, but they would work fine if you used the mechanically slaved TV I described above. In that case, all you need is elevon mixing which is available on any computer Tx these days.

fletchance - That EPP version looks great so far! Let us know how it turns out.

wirbech - Yes, this model will handle just fine with twin motors without the differential throttles. I haven't flown my ship with the rudders yet, but I'm confident they'll work great by themselves.

bob - Thanks! Those are very kind words! After posting this afternoon, I realized I might have been a bit premature in my "glow models are obsolete" claim. I think electrics outperform glow in just about every way for smaller models (less than 0.40 size), but large electric planes are still awfully expensive. Looking at the 8S to 10S 4000 mAh packs used on some of the larger models, the battery alone goes for $300+ and is only good for 8 to 10 minutes flying time. Not a good value to me. Gas models are much less expensive at those sizes. But now that I'm completely into parkflyer-sized models, I couldn't be happier with what electric RC technology is now allowing us to do! I was never in to anything larger than .40-sized, anyway...

CN - Yep, I'm going to paint my Su soon. I'm going with the stock tan/brown scheme. But I'm swamped with other things right now, so it'll be a few weeks before I get mine painted and get a flight video of it. Family and work obligations have to come first!

Steve
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Old Apr 07, 2007, 03:29 AM
Use the Force!
LBMiller5's Avatar
San Marcos, CA
Joined Jan 2005
2,179 Posts
Yes, I have added the SU-37 Plans!

Steve sent me the files a few days ago, and I already have a 100% and 150% set of plans plotted out and sitting in my workshop. Now I just have to find time to build them!

Since the plans thread has gotten pretty diversified over the past year and a half, I think that I will start a new one soon that shows all the plans listing and the various sizes that are available.

Lucien
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Old Apr 07, 2007, 04:03 AM
I fly therefore I crash
fletchace's Avatar
Torrance, CA
Joined Sep 2006
919 Posts
Hi Steve, thanks, that means a lot coming from you.


Well the SU grew a spine. What a difference it made. The thing is stiff as a board. Hopefully, I think , there is some give in there for any future mishaps. I will be using regular elevator and ailerons, 4 servos with 2 Y connectors. It's all my 3ch can muster. Also I have set up the stabilators fixed because I just haven't been able to master the art of landing without tearing em up.

Fletch
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Old Apr 07, 2007, 09:40 AM
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Flechace,
I've never done anything with epp foam, but your SU-37 is looking like a masterpiece. I think the 727 guy is using this kind of foam internally on his model. What are some the advantages/disadvantages of epp vs. depron? I don't know much about this and just use what the kit cutters put out.

Are you limited by a 3 channel TX or RX? It will be interesting to see what one can do with this model with those controls vs. the maximum. My guess is that it if you gang the thrust vectoring up to the elevators, it will do some very cool things. Could this model be set up with just tailerons like the F-14? Now you would be down to 2 servos and hook the thrust vectoring up to these. Or use the other one or two for rudder.
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Old Apr 08, 2007, 12:48 AM
I fly therefore I crash
fletchace's Avatar
Torrance, CA
Joined Sep 2006
919 Posts
Thanks Bob, I'm glad you like it! There is one big advantage to using EPP. That's its flexability. I have hit the deck nose first with my other EPP parkjets and sustained very minor damage. That being said the disadvantages of EPP are...
1. rough look, big beads, no smooth surface here.
2. difficult to finish well, it's an on going search for a way to finish EPP
3. Its flexability, funny enough, if depron is a 9 on the stiffness scale then EPP would be a 3 or 2.7
4. it rips!
5. it's hard to sand. it's more like a sanding rip. ( unless you have a belt sander!)

There might be more but I like EPP a lot so will stop there. You know it would be a great idea for the guys at 6mmflyrc.com to cater to the first time parkjet builder and put out an EPP F-15 (anybody listening?). I crashed mine into the ground at speed so many times. Then I would just picked it up and cleaned it off or slap a small piece of tape on a rip then throw it right back in the air. It was always fun to hear the comments on the flight line afterwords, Man can you believe that is still in one piece!, I have got to build something out of that!

Here is a link to an EPP Mig 29 I build from John Bright plans that would detail some of the qwerks of building with EPP.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=650083

Fletch
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Old Apr 08, 2007, 03:03 AM
It's a trap!
GotrekGurnisson's Avatar
Brisbane, Australia
Joined Feb 2006
3,143 Posts
I think the only way to get a really good finish for a commercial EPP parkjet kit would be to mould it, like GWS do with their EPS planes. Laser/hot wire cut EPP kits aren't going to be much chop. You'd be better off petitioning someone like GWS that already has the manufacturing equipment in place to switch to EPP rather than push for a small operation like 6mmFlyRC to start offering it.
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