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Old Mar 29, 2007, 03:30 PM
More Pile-it than Pilot
mdennis's Avatar
Shawnee, Kansas
Joined Nov 2002
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Discussion
Molded verses Bagged Supra problems

I know Phil Barnes is making, (selling), a bagged version and Kennedy Composites is importing a molded version of the Supra. There may be others that I am unaware of.

I have read many threads concerning the Supra, it's various problems and their solutions, but I have a hard time telling who's version is being spoken about.

Can anybody give me a rundown of the various problems that each version, (molded verses bagged), is having, or are they both having the same problems?

It would be handy information to know about when, in the production number, that solutions for the various problems were resolved.

There are cost differences, and I would think that there are weight differences, but they should essentially fly the same. Do they?
(I suppose the weight difference in the wing farther from the CG would mean a higher wing loading and a slightly slower roll response in the bagged version.)
Thanks,
Mark
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Old Mar 29, 2007, 03:43 PM
Daryl Perkins's Avatar
United States, VA, Falls Church
Joined Mar 2007
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I haven't had any problems with my Supra. I have an all glass molded version. It's at 64 ounces. Appears to be number 195. I don't see the flex in it that I saw in the earlier versions. Haven't flown it much though. I haven't J'd it yet.

I too have a question about one of the differences. Not between the scratch built versions, but between the Barnes bagger and the Molded.

Can someone tell me what the Barnes Bagger is finishing out at? If it's F3J strength, and in the low 50's, I may have to buck up and get one. I could always fly the heavy one when the winds come up... yeah... 64 ounces... the HEAVY one... ;-)
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Old Mar 29, 2007, 04:06 PM
Turn down for what?
rdwoebke's Avatar
United States, IN, Indianapolis
Joined Feb 2004
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Phil is selling a Supra? This would be news to me...

Now Phil does make the wings for the Thermal Dancer, and that is Supra eske, but not a Supra. And Phil has made his own Supras using I belive a Mike L. pod, but I was not aware he was selling a complete plane to the general public....


Ryan
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Old Mar 29, 2007, 04:43 PM
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Germantown, Maryland
Joined Apr 2004
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I WAS selling a bagged version of the Supra wings and tails. Actually it was sort of a cross between the Aegea wing and the Supra wing. Details here. I only sold a couple dozen or so of those before I stopped. I still have a list of maybe 50 people waiting in case I ever get back to making them and I'm not adding names to the list. I only sold the wings and tails. The fuselages were coming mostly from Mike Lachowski and Terry Luckenbach. I think they tended to build out to about 62oz. If you want a 55oz Supra you'll have to build it per the Drela plan yourself or offer somebody else a few thousand dollars to do it. You MIGHT find a builder at that price. I would never build a plane and give it to Daryl with a guarantee that is "J proof". I may be slow but I'm not that stupid

The Supra problems you've read about were all talking about the molded Supra. I don't own one but from following the Rcgroups and RCSE discussions, it sounds like those problems have all been addressed and you only need to pay attention to them if you buy a used model that was built before the production issues were worked out. Even then there are some simple modifications that will likely eliminate the problems.
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Old Mar 29, 2007, 05:03 PM
More Pile-it than Pilot
mdennis's Avatar
Shawnee, Kansas
Joined Nov 2002
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Thanks for the reply Phil.

Sounds like there is a healthy market for your version.

Mark
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Old Mar 29, 2007, 05:36 PM
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United States, VA, Falls Church
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Sounds like he's not charging enough to me... ;-)
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Old Mar 29, 2007, 07:44 PM
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USA, WA, Spokane
Joined Nov 2003
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Phil,

I see you're not adding to the list, how about just building a wing and sell it to me without putting me on a list.

If that won't work, guess I'll order the cores from Compufoam and watch your video several more times and then give it a shot.

JSF
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Old Mar 29, 2007, 08:08 PM
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Aegea Tail

Does anyone have (or make) a vertical tail (fin and rudder) suitable for the Luckenbach Pretty Mantis fuselage for the Aegea? I think that a Thermal Dancer tail would work, but Denny has not indicated that he has one to sell. I have some of Phil's Aegea wings that I have been using with Ava fuselages, but would like to switch to the Pretty Mantis fuselage and tail feathers (I do have suitable horizontal tail surfaces.)
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Old Mar 29, 2007, 09:45 PM
Yep, Naza-controlled Tricopter
tonyestep's Avatar
St. Louis
Joined Apr 2002
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DP, there are a few threads on making a bagged version. One is:
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=651389
The finished weight of a bagged Supra built as shown in that thread is 53. It will more than likely take a J launch, at least Drela engineered it to do so. When Phil sez a few thousand bucks, I can tell you from experience that at that price the labor would be cheap.
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Old Mar 29, 2007, 10:18 PM
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United States, VA, Falls Church
Joined Mar 2007
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Thanks for the info guys, but from scratch... I've looked at the plans.... yeah.. ok... no. But.... If Phil was producing wings, and they were finishing out at or even close to Drela's designed weight, I'd be all over one. I want to fly a clean 49 ounce one, just once. I think that would be a fun model to land.
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Old Mar 29, 2007, 10:52 PM
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In the moment
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I built a 136" Aegea which weighs under 56 ounces, Kevlar bagged wing and carbon spar stronger than the Drela Supra. The bidding starts at 3.5k$ ready to fly.
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Old Mar 29, 2007, 11:07 PM
Do it AGAIN! This time BETTER!
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WA
Joined Jan 2005
437 Posts
I am currently building a Barnes Supra It has a 5 on all the wing roots...Phil, is the the 5th wing produced??
Wing area is similar to Drela but the span is 130'. I just weighed the wing prior to installing the radio gear and have 162 for each tip and 630 for the center so 954g together compared to the 738g of Drela's plans.

630g center
324g tips
149g Pod
60g Boom
27g rudd
30g stab



Ken
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Old Mar 30, 2007, 01:25 AM
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markStockton's Avatar
Johannesburg, South Africa
Joined Apr 2005
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Molded Supra weights

#173 - #78
Fuselage 152g - 162g
Tail boom 65g - 72g
Wing centre 622g - 576g
Wing left 180g - 172g
Wing Right 179g - 172g
Stab 42g - 40g
Fin 39g - 38g

As you can see the fuses and booms are lighter, but the wing's have additional structure to sort out the shear failure issues the earlier models had.

Mark
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Old Mar 30, 2007, 08:16 AM
Turn down for what?
rdwoebke's Avatar
United States, IN, Indianapolis
Joined Feb 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daryl Perkins
I want to fly a clean 49 ounce one, just once. I think that would be a fun model to land.
I think you're going to have to ask Dr. Drela to fly his then. Has *anyone* other than him built a hard winchable (much less J able) Supra at less than 50 ounces?

Bueller?

Bueller?


:-)


Ryan
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Old Mar 30, 2007, 10:34 AM
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United States, CA, San Jose
Joined Nov 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markStockton
#173 - #78
Fuselage 152g - 162g
Tail boom 65g - 72g
Wing centre 622g - 576g
Wing left 180g - 172g
Wing Right 179g - 172g
Stab 42g - 40g
Fin 39g - 38g

As you can see the fuses and booms are lighter, but the wing's have additional structure to sort out the shear failure issues the earlier models had.

Mark
#259 Carbon Supra is 1349g empty.
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