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Old Mar 27, 2007, 03:05 AM
Happy2ndChildhood
Don McGill's Avatar
London Ontario
Joined Aug 2005
1,361 Posts
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Avro Arrow Profile

A jet out of two pieces of foam, how easy is that? Took me a month, but my workmates claim I have a larger learning curve than some, lol, maybe some truth to that. Anyway, thought since it flies so well I would be able to "give something back" so to speak. Don't think you can go wrong on the build, the slot for the tail to go through and the slot at the front fuse gives you an nice 90 degree angle on tail to wing with out even trying. The only thing I will change on any future replacements is no fiberglass kite rod in the nose. Will do a strip of filament tape on either side of nose instead. Seems to me these things fly fast enough if you mess up and mow yourself down that kite rod may pass right through you. Don't laugh, could happen, mowed myself down with GPW's ufo last summer. I think it is a pretty straight forward build, any questions feel free to ask, if your inclined to try it.

Here is a video shot in 20km wind.
http://video.google.ca/videoplay?doc...72584&hl=en-CA

AUW - 10.75oz
W/S - 23 & 5/16"
motor - Bm 2408-21
servos - 9 gram x2
esc - Tower Pro 30A
rx - CC Berg 4
battery - 3s 1200mah
(almost a 2 to 1 thrust to weight ratio!)

I have motor mount stick straight to fuse and wing, no offset either which way.
I probably don't need to mention this, don't get ahead of yourself and glue wing spar in before having tail in slot, make the channel ahead of time, and when the wing and fuse are together, slide spar down the channel and through the tail.
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Last edited by Lakota; Mar 27, 2007 at 03:29 AM.
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Old Mar 27, 2007, 05:57 AM
gpw
“There’s no place like Foam”
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Lakota ... looks GREAT!!!! Nice and simple ...you could double the foam on the nose , instead of the rod...just an idea
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Old Mar 27, 2007, 08:39 AM
Happy2ndChildhood
Don McGill's Avatar
London Ontario
Joined Aug 2005
1,361 Posts
Thanks, GPW. Simple it is, amusing thing is I started with an overly complicated interlocking crutch fuse and the more I simplified it the better she flew till she ended up ridiculously simple. I had not given much thought to a double thickness nose thinking it would slow it down. Now that you mention it I suppose on the battery side, the battery creates a wider wind block already so should have no effect on speed I would think... should work good, just a little leary of the rod in the front.
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Old Mar 27, 2007, 08:50 AM
High Altitude Flyer
viking60's Avatar
Fairplay, South Park, CO
Joined Sep 2005
1,608 Posts
Lakota,

Looks very good!! I will have to do one up soon, now that I'm back from my extended road trip.

**Updated Comment: THIS does seem to be the aircraft designed between 1954 & 1958 by AVRO in Canada, referred to as the Arrow. (The use of that name for the VTOL type "UFO" design variants might be inappropriate; the 'Manta' project / craft designation now seems to be more appropriate for them.)

Looks light, fast, & fun!

Viking
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Last edited by viking60; Apr 02, 2007 at 08:58 AM.
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Old Mar 27, 2007, 10:28 AM
Happy2ndChildhood
Don McGill's Avatar
London Ontario
Joined Aug 2005
1,361 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by viking60
Lakota,

Looks very good!! I will have to do one up soon, now that I'm back from my extended road trip.

(Food for thought on the name: I do remember GPW & Mike Smith building an Arrow variant of the John Frost / A.V. Roe / Avro VTOL UFO craft, similar to the Frost Manta, another design from the late 1950's . That was mid to late January, & I already have one of those cut out in 6mm Depron-like material from BP Hobbies... hope the similar name doesn't cause any confusion... )

Looks light, fast, & fun! How about a flight report soon?

Viking
I put a picture of what the plans look like assembled in the first post, hopefully that avoids any confusion as they are two totally different planes. The Arrow has quite a history here. I got interested in this Canadian engineered supersonic interceptor when I found out it was the only plane my 4yr old niece knew about and that it was her school mascot (Avro Arrow CF105). Picture of arrow cf105 on all school related stuff of hers.

Thanks for the compliment Viking. I find she flies really stable, rolls well, I'm still mastering that easy maneuver, lol. At the end of the video linked to in first post I was going verticle and spinning, totally lost orientation getting near edge of woods and had to bail out when I got sun in the eyes and coast it down. 2 minutes into video I almost had it sitting still in the air with the nose pointed into the wind (20km wind).
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Old Mar 27, 2007, 10:36 AM
gpw
“There’s no place like Foam”
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Arrow??? (s)... we thrive on confusion Cool Planes , both !!!
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Old Mar 27, 2007, 10:45 AM
Happy2ndChildhood
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London Ontario
Joined Aug 2005
1,361 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by gpw
Arrow??? (s)... we thrive on confusion Cool Planes , both !!!
Yes we do and that they are , will be doing your version with clear plastic tip fins when I figure out something suitably light enough.
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Old Mar 27, 2007, 10:48 AM
gpw
“There’s no place like Foam”
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If you build it like the plans , you don't need the clear fins .... really !!!
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Old Mar 27, 2007, 12:53 PM
Happy2ndChildhood
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London Ontario
Joined Aug 2005
1,361 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by gpw
If you build it like the plans , you don't need the clear fins .... really !!!
I'll do em blue then ,

21*C and 4km wind and can't take the afternoon off work . The j250 version flies too. Too funny, it can slow down and put around in the sky about 5km it seems. I believe I could fly it in a gym...maybe. Stalled it in the air and super easy to recover, not near as much fun as the brushless but calm fun just the same. Will post video after work tonight. Think it needs different prop for the j250, tried a 4.5x3 just for fun, too quite don't even hear it in the air and I did not check amps. Will switch to skyblast or which is better for thrust between a 3030 and 4040?
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Old Mar 27, 2007, 01:41 PM
gpw
“There’s no place like Foam”
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Don't burn it UP !!!!Max we use with 2cells is 4x2...I think if you leave the flux ring on , might get away with a 4x4... not WOT all the time .... it's the amps that EAT the brushes... you can tell a worn 250 by looking at all the black stuff inside the backplate .... brush dust... the brush holder is also closer to the shaft (viewed from the slots).. Check those Amps ... it'll be less in the air ...Just so ya' know
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Old Mar 27, 2007, 04:31 PM
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New Hampshire-seacoast area
Joined Jun 2005
1,755 Posts
Nice flying plane Lakota! Looks stable and smooth. I might have to try one. I've never had much luck with wings, I'm probably the only guy who couldn't fly Jerbear's simple wing!!!

Don't have a BP 21, But have various DIY cd's, what wind do you think would work?

Paul
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Old Mar 27, 2007, 07:22 PM
Phlathead
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Roseville, CA
Joined Aug 2006
624 Posts
Very nice, great and simple design. Looked a little sketchy while you were getting her up but once you were airborn you trimmed and got it to control nicely! Looks like a floater and a nimble flyer.

Congrats on a great design and thanks for sharing plans!

Chris.
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Old Mar 27, 2007, 08:02 PM
Registered User
Pickering, Ontario
Joined Aug 2004
135 Posts
Nice work. Clean and simple. I'm glad to see another Arrow in the sky.

I finished the full fuse version a couple of weeks ago from plans in the jet forum. It took a while to get the COG right. I had it too far back.

The Arrow is a great flyer. I'd encourage anyone to build one if you like a fast stable plane that also has low speed manners.

Profile or full-fuse; I don't think it matters, just build one.

GIAS
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Old Mar 27, 2007, 11:51 PM
Happy2ndChildhood
Don McGill's Avatar
London Ontario
Joined Aug 2005
1,361 Posts
GPW, 9.5A, just checked, skyblast prop seems best on the JSW for me speed wise so will try that next. This gws prop I used today was only bought cause it had a really small light prop adapter that I can bolt on the j250 shaft for 4040 props, thought I would try the prop for the heck of it. When you see the vid of it you will get a chuckle, not very jet like. Was more like flying a kite on a calm day. Only had a couple minutes to spare for flying before work, so just ran to field and chucked it and think I had it tail heavy to boot.

Praymond, first delta I flew was Jerbears JSW. I completely destroyed four of them before getting a flight out of it. Probably will always be one of my fav's. I found I am too heavy on the sticks and elevons seem really responsive. Once I limited the travel I suddenly had no problem flying them. Here are three pics of the travel on my JSW, neutral, full up and full down. If you limit your travel to that I guarantee you can fly it, you are much better at flying than me. I wind my own cd's once in a while as well. To be honest I can't help with best choice, when I don't see a proven combo in a build thread I find myself sending Gene Bond a pm begging for a suggestion. Hard not to add a Bm2408-21 to the collection when you get near 20oz thrust for $10.

Toxic, believe it or not, that is my poor flying skills, I launched with the trims at 0 and never touched them, several flights now, still never changed them. It seems to be on rails once she is moving, but she flies just as stable at the speed of my slowstick. All my launches look like that. I'm in the process of trying to find someone to teach me to fly properly.

GIAS, that is one beautiful model you built. This is destined to become a full fuse, still finishing that part and will post the plans for that when done. Same wing, same fuse, just adding body formers and soft foam body that opens up to lay flat and level with wing so it is easy to change battery and to borrow electronics for new builds without hurting the airframe. I would really like to see your model in flight, any chance you might have some time available on the Easter weekend? I expect to be in Oshawa for the weekend. I'll pm you later in the week.


Here is a link to the j250 powered version video. How different my perception is of what is going on, compared to what the camera sees, lol. I suppose there is no gym I'll be flying this in, what I saw as just putting around the sky at about 5km was obviously much faster according to the camera. Still, I felt like I was flying a kite, the brushless version has me vibrating as my lack of flying skill has me feeling it is all I can do to hold on to it. Anyway, sorry about the hight on the first third of vid, I remembered I was recording to share the vid so brought it down to a visible hight for the last two thirds. Hope you enjoy.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...67985489815953
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Last edited by Lakota; Mar 28, 2007 at 01:53 AM. Reason: added j250 vid and did not want to bump to top
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Old Mar 28, 2007, 02:00 AM
Ajutor de băgător de seamă
San Carlos, CA
Joined Mar 2004
734 Posts
Lakota,

Very nice profile pusher! I am actually ready to cut some foam to make one, as I never had a pusher plane before (UltraFly's SU may rot in its unopened box) and your model seems very easy to build.

I have a few questions though:

1) what makes the fuse and wing to stay square? Is the joint (6mm wide only) strong enough or does this thing need some reinforcement to keep them at 90*?

2) regarding the motor & prop. I have a cheap blue HXT motor (1300KV) for which they suggest a 9x5 prop. Is such a large prop adequate or would it induce too much torque roll?

B.t.w., can I use a standard APC prop mounted backwards?

Thank you,

Serban

P.S. It's a shame your plane did not receive any vote yet (I confess that I had to vote for the Pfeil2,such a beautiful work of craftmanship and art!).
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