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Old Mar 23, 2007, 04:23 AM
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France
Joined Jan 2006
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Thermik dream or Dragonfly strong

Hello thermal sailplane fans,

I need your expert advice to make my choice between this two planes.
Here you can find the link of both:
thermik dream: http://www.nesail.com/detail.php?productID=1555
380$
Dragonfly strong with Electric nose: http://www.soaringusa.com/products/p...ategory_id=293
600$
My real question is that price difference is justified? i'll buy it in Europe the price difference is only of 130$.
My piloting level is medium, i own a E-fly Q, a Nike 2 and an Ele bee. I'm very satisfy by my fly Q for thermal soaring but it doesn't like windy condition, which are a none negligible part on my flying field. So i would like a bigger and heavier sailplane to track the thermal in every conditions.
After lot of clics on research fonction i chose these models.

thermik dream
good: price, thermal soaring aptitude, wing in 3 parts, maybe more adapt to my piloting level
bad: some approximation on the construction, toughness of the wing and rudder basis?

Dragonfly strong
good: kit quality and building, tough wing and fuselage, awesome look
bad: price, 2 wing part, maybe too fast for me.

So if some of you can help me for this hard choice, i'll be please to talk with them.

Best regards
Nicolas

ps: sorry for my approximativ english
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Old Mar 23, 2007, 09:39 AM
Hot Dawg Glider Pilot
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United States, TX, Weatherford
Joined Nov 2002
7,779 Posts
I have a Dragonfly Strong - pure glider - and it is fast. The guality is pretty good, but could be better. The model could be just as strong, and quite a bit lighter. It is beautiful and really does fly nicely. It lands well and will slow down to thermal with 2 -3 mm flap and aileron droop. I plan to remove the wing covering soon, remove some of the beef and sand some of the humps out of the airfoil, and recover... and add winglets...

Sorry but I can't say anything about the Thermik Dream.

Jack Womack
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Old Mar 23, 2007, 11:55 AM
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France
Joined Jan 2006
238 Posts
Thanks Schrederman,

Carbon and fiber glass fiber aren't enought to reinforce the wing? you have some problem of rigidity?
What is your model weight as pure glider?

thanks for your answer.
Thermik dream owners are waiting for reply, lol!

regards
Nicolas
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Old Mar 23, 2007, 05:06 PM
Hot Dawg Glider Pilot
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United States, TX, Weatherford
Joined Nov 2002
7,779 Posts
Nicolas,

No problem with the strength or rigidity. Only a problem with the weight and smoothness of the wing. I believe this wing can be just as strong as it is and weigh less, probably by 3 to 4 oz. All-up weight of my pure glider form is 72.4 oz... which ain't all that bad... but it could be better. As well as I can tell, the wing is very strong and rigid. I'm just a sucker for a pretty face. This is one of the prettiest sailplanes I've ever seen, and it's pretty big... yet another thing I really like about it. I used HS225MG servos on the flaps. They were hard to install because there's just barely enough room. I used HS125MGs for the ailerons, and HS85MGs in the fuselage. I am using a high start to launch but working on getting a winch. It outlaunches most of my other models on the high start because I give it about 10 degrees of flap and about 6 degrees of aileron droop for launch. I'll admit that I bought it for it's looks and to practice up for bigger and better things... eyeing a Sharon right now... I would buy another one, as I like it that well, and I'm kind of picky...

Enjoy... whatever you do.

Jack
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Old Mar 23, 2007, 07:09 PM
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France
Joined Jan 2006
238 Posts
Thanks Jack,
You confirm all the good thing i'm thinking about the dragonfly strong, awesome look, good quality kit, high thermal perfomances. You say you want change the wing covering? why ?bad quality of the covering provided or normal wear rate?

Concerning the thermik dream how is it ageing? some weaks points appear?

regards
Nicolas
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Old Mar 23, 2007, 07:46 PM
Hot Dawg Glider Pilot
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United States, TX, Weatherford
Joined Nov 2002
7,779 Posts
It's not the covering that's bad. It's the wing structure under it that's not sanded well and has some humps along the spar. The covering job is really nice. I've flown this model about 40 times now, and again, it flys OK, but could be so much better... Besides... it's about to be orange and white instead of red and yellow... ... It's nothing most people would really bother with, I'm just a particular, perfectionist, nutcase.

Jack
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Old Mar 24, 2007, 02:30 AM
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France
Joined Jan 2006
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Perfection is a way to fly, indeed probably a way to the workshop most of the time lol!
Because of thermik dream owner shyness i'll continue to ask you question, if you agree, about the Dragonfly.
is it a vicious plane to pilot specially in thermal configuration? ( slow fly, flap and aileron droop), how is stall behaviour and rudder efficiency?

thanks you for your very interresting contribution. hope a thermik dream owner participate in the thread soon.

regards
Nicolas
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Old Mar 24, 2007, 01:20 PM
Hot Dawg Glider Pilot
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United States, TX, Weatherford
Joined Nov 2002
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Because of my full-scale airplane, a PIK 20-B, I am using my crow a little differently. Instead of reflexing the ailerons, I am drooping them about 10 degrees when the flaps are all the way down. The flaps pulled down to 90 degrees requires that you push the nose down, and that coupled with the reflexed ailerons kills a lot of the tip lift, or it seems to. Adding the positive flap effect out at the ailerons alows the glider to slow even more, and continue flying. On my full-scale sailplane, when I lower the flaps, the ailerons follow all the way down to 15 degrees and stay there while the flaps continue down to 90 drgrees. Adverse yaw has been sited elsewhere but doesn't present itself as a problem when the nose is down. I haven't had the Dragonfly drop a wing in any situation, yet. I have done a full stall series a couple of times with flaps and without, to see if her behavior is predictable, and it is. When using the flaps, it's important to keep the airspeed up and modulate the flaps. However, if you haven't kept the airspeed up and dump the flaps, it will drop the nose and the glider will speed up. If the airspeed is up and you dump all the flap, you only need to rotate the nose up to normal to be flying normally. In thermal configuration, I use about 2 mm down on te flaps and ailerons. It slows the glider nicely and thermals very well. I am going to experiment with more and less positive flap and aileron.

Of course, if I add winglets I will be redoing all the trims... What's a madman to do?

Jack
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Old Mar 25, 2007, 07:14 AM
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France
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Thanks Schrederman for your precise contribution and analysis about Dragonfly fly behavior. It seems more arduous than the thermik dream to pilot, but can allow me perhaps a bigger piloting margis progress.
Dragonfly seems a good choice for a model i could use for long time.

regards
Nicolas
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Old Mar 25, 2007, 10:17 AM
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Thermik Dream

I have a Thermik Dream that I bought ~2years ago. I have started it on a winch several times and also using a bungee, but the wing mounting is not strong enough for very hard treatment. It can definitly be used for thermal soaring, but I would not recomend it for competition use.

Best regards

Niels
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Old Mar 25, 2007, 03:47 PM
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France
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thanks Niels for your commentary. So you confirm the fragility of this plane? It's right that Bungee is really hard for the wing connection specially for thermal sailplane. That's why i plan to put a motor in the nose. Could please report me the fly behavior?

Best Regards
Nicolas
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Old Mar 29, 2007, 09:31 AM
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Hello Nicolas

I think the plane is a really nice glider, and I have had a few 20+ glides from a whinch launch even though it don't get very high. The problem I talk about is purely a launch problem in connection with winch launching, I would not expect any problems as a motor glider. I think the plane where mainly designed for this purpose. The airfoil section used for the glider is not a very fast one, but again I should not be a big problem when combined with a motor.

With best regards

Niels
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Old Mar 29, 2007, 11:32 AM
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Joined Aug 2000
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I have a Thermik Dream and it fly’s just fine. Since it is a motor glider, I have never launched with winch. The sailplane version is called the Diva.
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Old Mar 30, 2007, 05:27 AM
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France
Joined Jan 2006
238 Posts
Thanks for your feed back, so you find no weakness in times for this model?, it is own a good covering ageing? doesn't the wing mark too easily?

best regards
Nicolas
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Old Apr 02, 2007, 06:41 PM
Chuck it and see!
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UK, Cambridgeshire, Huntingdonshire
Joined Sep 2006
1,383 Posts
I have the Diva. Nice plane, The wing section is very capable and reacts well to flap. Mine winches just fine and also up the bungee. So for electric it will be great. The plane penetrates really well.

I may convert mine to electric...one day.
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