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Old Nov 01, 2012, 08:07 PM
Registered User
The Netherlands, LI, Amstenrade
Joined Jun 2012
1 Posts
hello all

I got a quick question about my hkII 2221-8 motor as i am having troubles with it.

Wel for a long story making short i got an 2221-8 combo with an commander 60 amps esc.
Since i bought this set i got something that feels like a short in the motor when it (the motor) gets warmer.
The heli just fals for a split second out of the sky but mostly i could catch him up and land safely.

To be sure that it has to be the motor what i all did is replace the commander with an ice 50 amps problem remains.
commander and ice 50 amps with a cheap motor trouble gone
also to be sure it's nothing else like reciever bad or servo's bad i placed all in a different heli with different setup still troubles remains.

Do u guy's have a clue if it's still something else or do u think it's def the motor ???

regards g
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Old Nov 02, 2012, 01:01 AM
The "Foaminator"
mikeruth's Avatar
United States, CA, Los Angeles
Joined Mar 2007
2,210 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by mystery View Post
hello all

I got a quick question about my hkII 2221-8 motor as i am having troubles with it.

Wel for a long story making short i got an 2221-8 combo with an commander 60 amps esc.
Since i bought this set i got something that feels like a short in the motor when it (the motor) gets warmer.
The heli just fals for a split second out of the sky but mostly i could catch him up and land safely.

To be sure that it has to be the motor what i all did is replace the commander with an ice 50 amps problem remains.
commander and ice 50 amps with a cheap motor trouble gone
also to be sure it's nothing else like reciever bad or servo's bad i placed all in a different heli with different setup still troubles remains.

Do u guy's have a clue if it's still something else or do u think it's def the motor ???

regards g
You did your home work very well and it would be my vote that it is the motor, but with that said one thing you haven't done is resolder the motor bullet leads.

Since the ESC and another motor are OK, try resoldering the leads, there is a slim possibility you have a cold solder joint.
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Old Nov 23, 2012, 08:07 PM
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Little Rock, AR
Joined Jul 2005
264 Posts
Knocking s5545-150

Recently purchased a used airframe with a s5545-150 on it.
It's supposed to only have a dozen flights or so on it, but has knocking noise at 3/4 to full throttle.

Running a Castle Ice2 HV160 pwm 8 and low timing. Also tried disabling logging, but no difference.

Any other settings I should try?
IMG 2933 (0 min 15 sec)
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Old Nov 23, 2012, 11:00 PM
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Joined Feb 2010
2,711 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeruth View Post
You did your home work very well and it would be my vote that it is the motor, but with that said one thing you haven't done is resolder the motor bullet leads.

Since the ESC and another motor are OK, try resoldering the leads, there is a slim possibility you have a cold solder joint.
I agree with ya Solution. I've had that problem despite of THOUSANDS of joints I've soldered in this hobby ;-) Try redoing the joint again and all the best :-)
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Old Dec 02, 2012, 04:11 PM
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Joined Oct 2012
8 Posts
Scorpion Airplane Motor: Do I need to the locking collar when mounting as a pusher?

Hi all:

I recently purchased a Scorpion SII-3008-1090kv from Innov8tive Designs. I would like to use it to power an EasyStar 2 using this mounting bracket.

The motor will be mounted to the bracket on the stator side (using the 4 pre-drilled holes), the prop on the rotor side of the shaft.

My problem: The shaft has a locking collar on the stator side. Unfortunately, the mounting bracket "shaft hole" is too narrow in diameter to allow use of the locking collar. My understanding is that it is OK to go without such a collar when using a pusher prop setup - the thrust vector of the prop ensures that the rotor bell will not come off anyway. Can someone confirm?

Here are some photos to illustrate. I've mounted the motor to the bracket without the collar. I obviously am not going to power this thing up until I have some reassurance!

Thank you for your time and help.

pogeybait
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Old Dec 03, 2012, 03:54 PM
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Joined Jan 2007
1,759 Posts
You are correct in the assumption that when in operation, the thrust of the prop will keep everything pushed tight together. However, even with a set-uo like that, I would not run the motor without some type of retension method. When you land the motor can bounce around a little bit and it can cause the rotating bell of the motor to momentarily be pushed away from the stator, or if you land so the prop hits the ground, or something on the ground, the motor bell can be pulled away and the magnetic attraction of the magnets will slam the motor halves back together. This can seriously damage the bearings and cause flat spots on the balls themselves.

A more appropriate course of action would be to put a small bushing on the back of the motor that has a 5mm ID and a 6 to 7mm OD and then put the retaining collar behind the bushing. This will get the retaining collar back behind the motor mount, where it will not interfere with the center hole in your motor mount, and still provide a solid retention of the motor shaft.

Alternately, several small precision 5mm washers can be stacked up to take of the a space equal to the thickness of the motor mount plate and the collar can then be put behind the washers.

One par that can be used to do this that is readily vailable is the pitch slider bushing for most 500 class electric helicopters. The majority of these size helicopters use a 5mm tail rotor shaft, and the bronze bushing that goes in the pitch slider typically ahs a 6 or 7mm hole in it to accept the bushing.

Another thing you can do is get some precision nylon tubing that is 5mm ID and 7mm OD, cut of a pirce about 1/4" long and slide it onto the shaft and put the collar behind it. McMaster Carr sells this type of product on line for a couple bucks per foot and a 1 foot piece would last a lifetime.

The bottom line is that you really do need to retain the motor shaft with something to make sure that the motor is solid and the parts cannot move around and slam into one another.

Lucien
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Old Dec 03, 2012, 04:12 PM
Electric baptism 1975
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Vernon, BC, Canada
Joined Dec 2000
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Can you ream out the hole on the mount till the collar fits??? I would keep the motor in a plastic bag when doing this, even though aluminum is unaffected by magnets
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Old Dec 05, 2012, 12:11 PM
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Joined Oct 2012
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Lucien - many thanks for your very helpful and detailed reply.

One thing I did last night was to install the collar on the shaft just a hair (maybe 1mm) in front (fore) of the mounting bracket. There is no contact between the collar and the mounting bracket. While grub screws in the collar do not engage the flats on the shaft (they just miss), the collar appears very tight and stable when I lock the screws down (use Locktite?). It seems to me using the collar like this (i.e., with approx. 1mm gap) would accomplish the objective of preventing a "runaway" rotor without requiring stacked washers, bushings, etc. as you describe.

Do you agree?

David - thank you for the idea. The mounting bracket unfortunately doesn't leave any room to ream out the hole. If you look at my photos, you see that it wouldn't take much reaming before the screw mount holes would be compromised.
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Old Dec 06, 2012, 09:45 AM
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USA, IN, Bloomington
Joined Aug 2007
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Anyone have any experience rewiring a Scorpion 3020 SII motor with two strands of 22 or 23 gauge wire? I'm looking for a kv of around 1100.
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Old Dec 06, 2012, 10:24 AM
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Antony (France)
Joined Sep 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BloomingtonFPV View Post
Anyone have any experience rewiring a Scorpion 3020 SII motor with two strands of 22 or 23 gauge wire? I'm looking for a kv of around 1100.
Hi
No experience, only reasonning
Factory SII 3020 Kv 1110 (measured 1140 rpm/V)
dLRK Delta
8 turns with 17 strands 0.25 mm
So you could try, (4 turns per tooth)
8 turns delta, single 0.91 mm AWG 19 or 1.024mm AWG 20
With AWG 22 (0.64mm) you should have room to use 2 strands
With AWG 23 (0.574mm) you should have room to use 3 strands
The best is to try and decide
(note 9 turns = 4+5 could give 1013 rpm/V)
Louis
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Old Dec 06, 2012, 12:29 PM
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USA, IN, Bloomington
Joined Aug 2007
840 Posts
Thanks for your calculations, Louis. I see where I was going wrong- I thought 8 turn meant 8 turns around each tooth, but it is 8 turns per POLE, which for this motor is 2 teeth on each side. Is that correct?
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Old Dec 06, 2012, 12:55 PM
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Antony (France)
Joined Sep 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BloomingtonFPV View Post
Thanks for your calculations, Louis. I see where I was going wrong- I thought 8 turn meant 8 turns around each tooth, but it is 8 turns per POLE, which for this motor is 2 teeth on each side. Is that correct?
Hi
the information number of turns is "conventional".
Scorpion indicates number of turns for two successive wound teeth (dLRK)
It is equivalent to the same number per tooth if LRK (one coil every 2 teeth)
Maybe another manufacturer could use always the number of turns per tooth in any case (ABC, dLRK or LRK)
Note that it could arrive a number of turns = odd (4+5) = 9
In ABC or LRK we could have half a turn
Example 8.5 turns = means that the transit is opposite side relatively to entering side

Louis
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Old Dec 06, 2012, 01:29 PM
Electric baptism 1975
DavidN's Avatar
Vernon, BC, Canada
Joined Dec 2000
2,908 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fourdan View Post
Hi
the information number of turns is "conventional".
Scorpion indicates number of turns for two successive wound teeth (dLRK)
It is equivalent to the same number per tooth if LRK (one coil every 2 teeth)
Maybe another manufacturer could use always the number of turns per tooth in any case (ABC, dLRK or LRK)
Note that it could arrive a number of turns = odd (4+5) = 9
In ABC or LRK we could have half a turn
Example 8.5 turns = means that the transit is opposite side relatively to entering side

Louis
Hi Louis thanks for explaining. I followed you up to the last statement.
"Example 8.5 turns = means that the transit is opposite side relatively to entering side". Does opposite refer opposite sides of the individual stator coil OR opposite side of the circle of coils eg 3 & 9 o'clock as viewed in the direction of the motor shaft. Joyeux Noel.
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Old Dec 06, 2012, 03:34 PM
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Fourdan's Avatar
Antony (France)
Joined Sep 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidN View Post
Hi Louis thanks for explaining. I followed you up to the last statement.
"Example 8.5 turns = means that the transit is opposite side relatively to entering side". Does opposite refer opposite sides of the individual stator coil OR opposite side of the circle of coils eg 3 & 9 o'clock as viewed in the direction of the motor shaft. Joyeux Noel.
Hi
Generally the first coil has an entering wire on the stator flange side
It is(could be) interesting to manage the wire-transit so that this coil is finishing on the rotor flange side to go to the following(serial) second coil entering on the rotor side to exit on the stator side. And so on.
That solution is not valid for ABC or (ABC)x3 but valid for (ABC)x2
Coils A.. have to be even number (not odd)
Louis
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Old Dec 08, 2012, 12:25 AM
Registered Crasher
United States, TX, Coppell
Joined Feb 2011
2,226 Posts
I just got a (display model ) S-3020-14 from Innov8tive designs. When plugged into a dynam detrum 60A ESC, I just get stuttering (all throttle positions). I tried all 3 timing settings on the ESC, no difference.

What next?
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