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Old Dec 01, 2010, 12:11 PM
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Doug Bartley's Avatar
Canada, ON, Owen Sound
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Originally Posted by zozer View Post
Actually I'd be 'way over 2000 watts at 150 amps, over 3000 watts actually. We normally run WOT most of the time - boats are not planes and can't "coast" - plus lots of part throttle would overheat the ESC. Scorpion Calc shows 145 amps for 2 minutes gives 250*F on the motor. The information others have posted is interesting and appreciated, but doesn't answer my main question - is the core saturated at this power level? Still waiting on Lucien for that answer. Thanks guys!


.
Your answer is already here in post #7486, it states you are nearing core saturation around 75 amps! Obviously anything over the max continuous rating of 80 amps full throttle will damage the motor sooner or later. Scorpions can take short bursts for a few seconds beyond the max continuous as much as 25% according to Lucien (in another post). If you choose to ignore these warnings, you may get the "magic smoke".
My simple logic, if the motor can't make the watts you desire, get a bigger motor, on higher voltage that can, don't destroy a motor by needlessly pushing it well beyond it expectations! My 2 cents FWIW Doug B
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Old Dec 01, 2010, 12:46 PM
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Waterloo, Belgium
Joined Dec 2004
276 Posts
Reversing shaft

Hello,
I plan to mount two S-5525-225 on a 100" Mosquito.
To facilitate balancing the spinner and the 18*12 3-blade propeller, I would like to reverse the shaft. Is it feasable ? How ?
Thanks for your support.
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Old Dec 01, 2010, 12:56 PM
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Alameda, CA
Joined Dec 2006
2,924 Posts
Lucien, I'm sure you've answered this many times, but do you know why Scorpion has committed their motors to the collet style prop adapter and gone away from the option of using a rotor-end style?? It just seems like a much more certain connection?

Thanks.

Steve
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Last edited by sgomes; Dec 01, 2010 at 02:39 PM.
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Old Dec 01, 2010, 01:46 PM
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USA, FL, Ocoee
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Bartley View Post
Your answer is already here in post #7486, it states you are nearing core saturation around 75 amps! Obviously anything over the max continuous rating of 80 amps full throttle will damage the motor sooner or later. Scorpions can take short bursts for a few seconds beyond the max continuous as much as 25% according to Lucien (in another post). If you choose to ignore these warnings, you may get the "magic smoke".
My simple logic, if the motor can't make the watts you desire, get a bigger motor, on higher voltage that can, don't destroy a motor by needlessly pushing it well beyond it expectations! My 2 cents FWIW Doug B
I am trying to understand. Is it the resultant heat from over amping that is the killer?
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Old Dec 01, 2010, 10:10 PM
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Canada, ON, Owen Sound
Joined Oct 2008
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Hi bill: From my understanding, when the core is saturated, the motor goes out of phase,signals from the esc are lost as the windings become one big magnet instead of separate ones, heat builds very rapidly as well. Now with the motor out of phase, the controller just pores in the amps trying to rephase, huge spikes in amperage, which can destroy the motor, the esc or both. It to me sounds like one big dead short!!
Definately something you want avoid if possible!
Known as "letting the magic smoke out"
Scorpions are, IMHO, some of the best out there, considering their ratings, power and price, They can be pushed for a few seconds without any apparent damage. Look at some others that make the same power, they are heavier (sometimes a lot), and not rated to handle the heat either. I've read where some have managed to get their motors up to 160 degrees in use. Mine have never reached 100! Ikeep them below or at the limits recommended.
Heli boys appear to be harder on their motors than most plane pilots. The risk is all yours when you push the motors beyond their rated limits, the costs to replace them and possibly the plane too are also yours. Have fun with your choices. FWIW Doug Bartley
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Old Dec 05, 2010, 03:34 PM
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houston, texas
Joined Mar 2004
54 Posts
Lucien,

I'm taking a 3 yr old pattern ship out of retirement that had been flying with a YS DZ 160
four stroke and converting it to e-power. I have a 5535-190 Scorpion motor which happens to be just about the same weight as the DZ, muffler, mount, etc, so it should be a good swap. I plan on running it on 10s 5000 mah packs and was needing your suggestion on props. The airplane weighs almost 11 lbs. I have a few 20.5 x 14 and 20 x 13 APC e props and wonder if they will work OK.

thanks,
tommy s
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Old Dec 06, 2010, 06:38 AM
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Waterloo, Belgium
Joined Dec 2004
276 Posts
Reversing shaft...

Hello
I have to come back to my former question...
I am building a 100" mosquito that will be powered with two S-5525-225 and 18*12 3-blade propellers. The spinner is 5" diameter.
To improve rigidity, I want to reverse the mounting of the motor, so I have to reverse the shaft.
Is it feasible, how ?
Thanks
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Old Dec 06, 2010, 12:20 PM
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Joined Dec 2010
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Knock on S4025-16

I am new to E-Flight and have just finished a plane powered by the Scorpion 4025-16 with a Phoenix ice 100 and a 17x12 APC. When I try to power up the motor knocks like crazy and the plane jumps all over. After about 1/4 throttle it starts to run smoothly from idle to full power. I noticed after about three attempts the motor was extremely hot so decided to stop until I found out how to fix the problem. Any ideas?
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Old Dec 06, 2010, 12:52 PM
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Fourdan's Avatar
Antony (France)
Joined Sep 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by olflyr View Post
I am new to E-Flight and have just finished a plane powered by the Scorpion 4025-16 with a Phoenix ice 100 and a 17x12 APC. When I try to power up the motor knocks like crazy and the plane jumps all over. After about 1/4 throttle it starts to run smoothly from idle to full power. I noticed after about three attempts the motor was extremely hot so decided to stop until I found out how to fix the problem. Any ideas?
Hi
Your info is not complete.
What voltage or what source-battery ?
Louis
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Old Dec 06, 2010, 01:17 PM
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scorpion 4025-16

forgot to mention that I am using a 6000ma 6cell lipo with a separate bec.
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Old Dec 06, 2010, 02:29 PM
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Antony (France)
Joined Sep 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by olflyr View Post
I am new to E-Flight and have just finished a plane powered by the Scorpion 4025-16 with a Phoenix ice 100 and a 17x12 APC. When I try to power up the motor knocks like crazy and the plane jumps all over. After about 1/4 throttle it starts to run smoothly from idle to full power. I noticed after about three attempts the motor was extremely hot so decided to stop until I found out how to fix the problem. Any ideas?
Hi
On 6S LiPo with APC 17x12 you are probably close to the upper limit of power for the 4025-16
Suggestion : measure V, I and W with a wattmeter at WOT static plane
Could be 15 seconds, time to read the wattmeter
Don't forget this motor is (only) 353 g
Louis
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Old Dec 06, 2010, 06:53 PM
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Joined Mar 2010
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Will scorpion release the 4535 and 4530 type motor for TDR?

Also what lipo type was used for the TDR record helicopter?
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Old Dec 06, 2010, 07:07 PM
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Joined May 2008
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Scorpion ESC initializes before my Spektrum receivers

Last week I purchased a 26V Scorpion ESC 45Amp switching BEC. I am connecting using a 3S (freshly charged) Lipo to various varieties of Spektrum receivers. So far I have connected to the following models of receiver: 6100 (ver 1.6), 6110, 6200 & 7000. I have also tried 2 different transmitters, DX7 & JR12X and all combinations of receiver and transmitter produce the following problem:

In most cases (70% of the time), the Scorpion ESC initializes before the receiver (the ESC usually takes 2-3 seconds and the Spektrum receiver initializes about a second (at the most) later causing the Scorpion to produce a repeating double beep orange indicator light on the IR program card which the manual describes as the ESC not receiving a signal from the receiver. On the rare occasion that the Spektrum receiver initializes first, then all is well and everything boots correctly.

Searching the forums I found the following workaround at Helifreak... and, indeed, this is the only solution that has worked for me:

From Helifreak....
1. put ur IR unit in IRS mode on the heli
2. turn on Tx and then plug in your batt like normal
3. this allows the Tx and Rx to boot up
4. then without unplugging the batt or anything flip switch on IR unit back to PPM and then ur ESC should initialize.

the speed of initialization is different basically and if the esc doesnt recognize a signal it goes into that alarm mode as a safety feature of scorpions.

My question is: Has anyone found another solution to this problem that would allow a proper initialization without having to keep the IR connector in an exposed position on the plane? Is there a way to program the ESC to delay a bit before it initializes so that the receivers have time to initialize first? I have searched for 4 days looking for answers so please forgive me if there is an obvious solution that I haven't run across yet.

Thanks,
Steve (maprat)
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Old Dec 07, 2010, 12:47 AM
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bill clark's Avatar
USA, FL, Ocoee
Joined Sep 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maprat View Post
Last week I purchased a 26V Scorpion ESC 45Amp switching BEC. I am connecting using a 3S (freshly charged) Lipo to various varieties of Spektrum receivers. So far I have connected to the following models of receiver: 6100 (ver 1.6), 6110, 6200 & 7000. I have also tried 2 different transmitters, DX7 & JR12X and all combinations of receiver and transmitter produce the following problem:

In most cases (70% of the time), the Scorpion ESC initializes before the receiver (the ESC usually takes 2-3 seconds and the Spektrum receiver initializes about a second (at the most) later causing the Scorpion to produce a repeating double beep orange indicator light on the IR program card which the manual describes as the ESC not receiving a signal from the receiver. On the rare occasion that the Spektrum receiver initializes first, then all is well and everything boots correctly.

Searching the forums I found the following workaround at Helifreak... and, indeed, this is the only solution that has worked for me:

From Helifreak....
1. put ur IR unit in IRS mode on the heli
2. turn on Tx and then plug in your batt like normal
3. this allows the Tx and Rx to boot up
4. then without unplugging the batt or anything flip switch on IR unit back to PPM and then ur ESC should initialize.

the speed of initialization is different basically and if the esc doesnt recognize a signal it goes into that alarm mode as a safety feature of scorpions.

My question is: Has anyone found another solution to this problem that would allow a proper initialization without having to keep the IR connector in an exposed position on the plane? Is there a way to program the ESC to delay a bit before it initializes so that the receivers have time to initialize first? I have searched for 4 days looking for answers so please forgive me if there is an obvious solution that I haven't run across yet.

Thanks,
Steve (maprat)
I dont know didily about your system but Iam wondering if you could use a seperate Rx batt just to get it radio going before powering up the esc. May be similar to what your doing already?
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Old Dec 07, 2010, 03:04 PM
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Doug Bartley's Avatar
Canada, ON, Owen Sound
Joined Oct 2008
2,876 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by olflyr View Post
I am new to E-Flight and have just finished a plane powered by the Scorpion 4025-16 with a Phoenix ice 100 and a 17x12 APC. When I try to power up the motor knocks like crazy and the plane jumps all over. After about 1/4 throttle it starts to run smoothly from idle to full power. I noticed after about three attempts the motor was extremely hot so decided to stop until I found out how to fix the problem. Any ideas?
You may have a "Start boost" mode in your ESC. this sends a bigger initial voltage/ amp load to get the prop turning. There may also be a timing delay which loads the esc over a determined time to help get bigger props turning.
Either one may solve your problem.
The esc should be on 8 Mhz cycling, and maybe medium (15 degrees) timing.
Hope that helps a little. Doug B
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