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Old Jan 31, 2008, 06:41 AM
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hweird's Avatar
Joined Jul 2002
407 Posts
I am looking for a new quality motor for a SA Groove v2. The Scorpion support and described quality looks great. The website is very detailed.

My issue is when you review the motor charts they start to overheat at 1/2 their rated maximum wattage. I know static testing isn't the final answer and people's experiences within this thread are very positive, but in reference to other motors this is abnormal, especially considering the claims of super high temp magnets and wiring.

I am considering the 2215-18 vs torque 2830T/1095 vs Hacker A30-28S. The few extra dollars don't really concern me, since I am willing to pay for quality. I am amazed just over the last two years, how good BL motors have dropped in price.

I am not diminishing Scorpion or Lucien or trying to start a heated debate, just looking for some clarifications.

Thx
Howard
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Old Jan 31, 2008, 08:15 AM
Registered User
Alabaster AL
Joined Aug 2006
791 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by hweird
I am looking for a new quality motor for a SA Groove v2. The Scorpion support and described quality looks great. The website is very detailed.

My issue is when you review the motor charts they start to overheat at 1/2 their rated maximum wattage. I know static testing isn't the final answer and people's experiences within this thread are very positive, but in reference to other motors this is abnormal, especially considering the claims of super high temp magnets and wiring.

I am considering the 2215-18 vs torque 2830T/1095 vs Hacker A30-28S. The few extra dollars don't really concern me, since I am willing to pay for quality. I am amazed just over the last two years, how good BL motors have dropped in price.

I am not diminishing Scorpion or Lucien or trying to start a heated debate, just looking for some clarifications.

Thx
Howard
I am not sure if this is the reason but the maximum wattage is assumed 4S operation. I have the 2215-18 running 3S on 10 X 5E APC and it has great performance, sorry I don't have actual numbers at hand but it appears to be right in line with what is on ScorpionCalc. I am going to experiment with different props until I find the right combo for my flying style. The motor always comes down barely warm. I set my preferences in ScorpionCalc for my temps and altitude. The prop chart for this motor isn't updated with correct Kv yet for this motor.

RCNXS
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Last edited by rcnxs; Jan 31, 2008 at 11:22 AM.
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Old Jan 31, 2008, 11:16 AM
WAA-08 THANK FRANK!
JimNM's Avatar
Las Cruces, New Mexico, United States
Joined Jun 2002
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FWIW - I fly at 4000 feet ASL, and in the desert, so my air is a bit thinner than where Innov8tive ran their tests...

I run the 2215-18 on either a GWS 9x7.5HD or an APC E 10x7 - both are right at 200-210 watts on 3s. No heating problems when run in the air - when run static - there is too much heat for my comfort. I've flown Scorpion products for almost 2 years now - and I'm flat out impressed. When looking at the charts - be sure to stay within your expected parameters - 3s to 4s is a 33% increase in voltage, which can throw off your calculations by a large margin. Innov8tive fist published the charts with a short term maximum amp figure - but since then has revised their numbers to the continous max, I'm not sure if the whole site has been updated. I can tell you that the 2215-18 is happy at 220 watts (with cooling) and less.

What plane and power setup are you looking at? Randy, at RCDude.com, has 2 pages of photos and data about his customers planes - that may give you a real life benchmark.

Fly'em HIGH
JimNM
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Old Jan 31, 2008, 11:26 AM
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Canada's East Coast, "An Ocean Playground"
Joined Apr 2002
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Thanks Lucien for the update info on the new winds for the smaller motors.
Take it easy on the body...we need your expertise..!

Get some R&R..!

Bill
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Old Jan 31, 2008, 01:33 PM
WORK!
hweird's Avatar
Joined Jul 2002
407 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimNM
I run the 2215-18 on either a GWS 9x7.5HD or an APC E 10x7 - both are right at 200-210 watts on 3s. JimNM
Thanks Jim,
Those two props are not listed on the 2215-18 data chart. Looking at other motors for comparison that do list those two props, they are too much prop for the motor. Including them would exceed the recommended amperage and wouldn't look good.

I am looking at this airplane: SA Groove v2

Howard
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Old Jan 31, 2008, 01:51 PM
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albuquerque
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This question may have been asked before, but I didn't want to plow through the whole thread if I could keep from it. How well do you esc's work in twin motor airplanes. I've had mixed results with some of the less expensive brands. Thanks. Jim
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Old Jan 31, 2008, 02:29 PM
WAA-08 THANK FRANK!
JimNM's Avatar
Las Cruces, New Mexico, United States
Joined Jun 2002
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Howard - I'm flying a Stevens SHAFT and a GWS P-40. I also flew an Ultra Fly P-51 on a 10x7 APC E. Again, I fly at 80% of a mile high from Sea level.

How many cells do you want to run 3 or 4? The voltage 10.4 for 3 cells and 14.0 for 4 cells has everything to do with the load on the motor. How heavy is your Grove ride gonna be? You may want to look at the 30mm motors - like the 3008-32. A lot more motor for less than an oz. more.

My 9x7.5 props bring the motor back stone cold - the 10x7 prop left just enough heat in the motor to feel it. I flew the UF P-51 at WOT all the time, cause a slow 'Stang is no fun. Prop charts are OK for getting a range of workable solutions. Real life testing is the only way to get definite answers. The motor windings and magnets are rated to over 200 degrees F - and their effecientcy will fall off way before the max temp. is reached.


I'm confused here - where do you see in the Scorpion Chart that the motor is "begining to over heat at ~1/2 the rated watts">>?

Your Hacker motor quoted is directly comparable to the Scorpion 3008-32 - or the 3008-28, maybe you are looking at the wrong Scoprion motor for an apples to apples comaprison?

Lucien is the best source of information, and I do not mean to speak for him.

Fly well
JimNM
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Last edited by JimNM; Jan 31, 2008 at 02:37 PM.
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Old Feb 01, 2008, 04:35 AM
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Joined Jan 2007
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Hi Guys, Back again!


Just wanted to clarify a couple things.

JimNM,

Thanks for the positive feedback. It is always good to get real life experiences from the field, as that is the true test of the motor.

Oh, just to let you know, the magnets in the Scorpion motors are rated for 200 degrees C (392 F), not 200 F. Easy mistake to make!




hweird,

As JimNM stated, for the SA Groove v2, one of the Scorpion 3008-32 motors with an 11x5.5E prop will work very well. This combination will yield 44 ounces of thrust with a 22 amp current draw.

If you want a bit more power than that for truly balistic performance, you can move up to a 3014-18 motor. It weighs about 1.3 ounces more, but runs more efficiently and can put out a bunch more power. With a 10x5E prop it will pull 24 amps and put out 49 ounces of thrust. If you really want to see it scream, you can step up to an 11x5.5 prop and get a current draw of 31 amps and 61 ounces of thrust!




retiredVTT,

I pretty much slept all day Tuesday and only put in a couple hours on Wednesday. By Thursday I was good as new and back at the helm of the fastest growing Electric Power System company on the Planet! Man I love my job!



Well it is now 1:30 am. and the end of a very long day. Time to get some rest so I can hit it again Friday morning.

See you all later!

Lucien




Something to remember:

There are 3 kinds of people in the world,

Those that make things happen..........

Those that watch things happen.........

and those that wake up and say, "What happened?"

Which group are you in?
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Old Feb 02, 2008, 04:05 AM
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Germany, Berlin
Joined Feb 2008
84 Posts
Hi All!

This is my first question here in this forum.
My name is Dirk an iīm living in germany. In some german forums the scorpion motors are announced as the best motors to use in helicopters T-Rex Class.

So i bought a HK2221-8 v2 and a Scorpion 90A Brushless ESC. They are on the way to germany now.

Now i read, that there is no soft-powerup in the scorpion ESCīs. Is that true?
Anybody using HK2221-8 with Scorpion ESC in T-Rex heli??

What is the best setup for this combination?

Thanx in advance....

Dirk
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Old Feb 02, 2008, 03:21 PM
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JBuck's Avatar
United States, CA, San Diego
Joined Apr 2007
250 Posts
Wow, thats funny.

I also just got the scorpion 8 motor and the 35amp esc for my trex 450.

I was also wondering what the best programming would be?

Im using a 3 cell lipo.

Thanks
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Old Feb 02, 2008, 03:37 PM
WAA-08 THANK FRANK!
JimNM's Avatar
Las Cruces, New Mexico, United States
Joined Jun 2002
7,346 Posts
Critical - the ESC programming instructions are here...

http://www.innov8tivedesigns.com/Sco..._jan21_005.htm

You can set the motor delay up to 1 second - that should work for helos.
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Old Feb 03, 2008, 06:04 AM
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Germany, Berlin
Joined Feb 2008
84 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimNM
Critical - the ESC programming instructions are here...

http://www.innov8tivedesigns.com/Sco..._jan21_005.htm

You can set the motor delay up to 1 second - that should work for helos.
Thanx JimNM!!

But I canīt find if I can switch between Govenor- or Fix Mode.
Or isnīt there a Govenormode????

Hmm, hope my Scorpion stuff will arrive soon....

Sorry for my Questions without having seen the Motor and ESC and their Guides.

Cheers
Dirk
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Old Feb 03, 2008, 01:39 PM
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Shepherdstown, WV
Joined Jan 2007
195 Posts
scorpion commander 45amp esc and spektrum dx-7 radio

Lucien,

The issue with the 45amp commander and dx-7 continues to cause folks problems. On other threads I am seeing more and more people talk about the problem of not getting adequate power out of the esc. I experienced this problem as well, but I think I managed to solve it with changing endpoints and recalibrating.

However, I think it would be very helpful if you could throughly investigate this problem and provide specific details of the problem and specific procedures for a remedy. Sometime ago you posted that you bought a dx-7. If you have already done the above, could you please post your results. A good example of a manufacturer being proactive about this kind of issue is the information that is posted on the castle creations web page about the potential problem of using the castle creations BEC and some spectrum receivers. They describe the problem and the solution. The solution works perfect and allows consumers to use these two good products together.

Please resolve this issue.

regards
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Old Feb 03, 2008, 06:47 PM
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San Jose, California, United States
Joined Oct 2004
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Well I think I may have found a nice sweet spot for my 3014 on the 36" Demon.

Flew it today and it went verticle on 3/4 throttle and it had no signs of ever coming down!!!

A pitch speed of 144mph didn't hurt either.

Vids to come,
B
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Old Feb 03, 2008, 07:12 PM
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Miami,FL
Joined Jun 2007
763 Posts
What prop and voltage are you running on it? Which kv 3014 is it?
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