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Old Mar 27, 2007, 12:21 AM
Michael Yosten
Mikeygp's Avatar
Greenville, Tx
Joined May 2006
592 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Innov8tive
fly_boy99,

Thanks for pointing out the 2 mistakes in the post. I have gone back and corrected them.

Yes, I did mean 90 watts, not 90 amps!

And as far as the Kv changing, you are right, it does go up with weaker magnets, I know that, but I must have had a bit of dyslexia of the brain there!



Mikeygp,

Abuse away! I did run the 2215-18 motor with an APC 10x5E prop on 4 Li-Po cells a few times during the tests! It pulled 23.5 amps on 14.0 volts for 328 watts of input power. It spun the 10x5E prop at 9,725 RPM and put out 48.4 ounces of thrust! That is an insane amount of power for a motor that only weighs 2.18 ounces! I do not recommend this as a combination to actually use in a model, but it does show that the Scorpion motors can take a considerable amount of abuse without failing!

Lucien
Lucien form what I already see from your motor temps it is going to still be running strong at the end of the summer. In a week or two I will start my 50 flights a week practice.
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Old Mar 27, 2007, 11:13 AM
homo ludens modellisticus
Ron van Sommeren's Avatar
The Netherlands, GE, Nijmegen
Joined Feb 2001
10,682 Posts
Lucien, our German colleagues have some doubts about N50EH magnets:
http://www.rclineforum.de/forum/thre...id=149305&sid=

Vriendelijke groeten Ron
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Old Mar 27, 2007, 01:27 PM
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Joined Aug 2004
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Ron,

I read the supplied link about high temp perm magnets and it seemed to imply that magnets rated to 200C were possible but that manufacturing magnets rated to 300 or 400C was problematic. It seems to me that this supports what Lucien has said. I would also note that the article supplied was published in 2000 which means that the research was probably performed in 1999 making the info 8 years out of date. This seems a little curious to me. Are we to assume that work on developing high temp magnets ceased 8 years, did the aerospace industry just throw up their collective hands and say 'I give up'?

FWIW In my dealings and contacts with Lucien I have found him to always be honest and forthwright, not to mention exquisitly well informed. To claim, as Peter Maul did, that this 'purely marketing' seems to border on the absurd as this would be a absolute whopper of a lie to tell - especially so as if it were not true the claim of 200C rated magnets would certaily be exposed which would permanently damage the reputation of the company which wouldn't make a whole lot of sense would it?

Just my 2 cents.

Adam
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Old Mar 27, 2007, 03:16 PM
pem
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Frankfurt Intl, Germany
Joined Feb 2004
291 Posts
no researcher would miss the reputation from publishing new breakthroughs.
I added there 2006 info (from INTERMAG 2006, backed by Mass. nst of Tech.
(MIT) and Army Research Laboratory Collaborative Technology Alliance:

http://www.mems.gatech.edu/msmawebsi...mperatures.pdf


the full article mentioned in the post above is http://handle.dtic.mil/100.2/ADA382940

Ah yes: Electron Energy Corp. : latest brochure
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Last edited by pem; Mar 27, 2007 at 03:36 PM.
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Old Mar 27, 2007, 03:25 PM
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Joined Jan 2007
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Ron,

They can doubt it all they want, but the fact of the matter is that it is true. During the development of the motors, Scorpion did some rather intensive temperature testing, just to see how far the motors could be pushed. They ran the motors with a prop at room temperature and established a baseline reading of voltage, current and power used. Then they took the test motors and put them into a heat chamber with a prop on them, attached to a speed controller that was mounted just outside of the chamber. The motors were then "Pre-heated" to 150C (302 F) and ran at this condition.

After the test, the motor was allowed to cool back to room temperature and retested to see if it was damaged in any way by the high heat exposure. The readings for the second test showed that the motor drew the same current and produced the same power as in the first test, and had suffered no ill effects from the operation at the high temperatures in the test chamber.

That pretty much says it all! I don't think that you will find any other motor out there that can be subjected to a test like that and survive undamaged.




latrans,

Thanks for the kind words! I do my best to represent everything I sell as accurately and professionally as possible. If I do make a mistake, I will publically admit it and take whatever corrective actions that need to be made to remedy the situation. I have too much riding on this to mis-represent the products or my company, you can count on that! My reputation is very important to me, and I would never do anything to jeopordize that.

Lucien
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Old Mar 27, 2007, 04:14 PM
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Joined Aug 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Innov8tive

latrans,

Thanks for the kind words! I do my best to represent everything I sell as accurately and professionally as possible. If I do make a mistake, I will publically admit it and take whatever corrective actions that need to be made to remedy the situation. I have too much riding on this to mis-represent the products or my company, you can count on that! My reputation is very important to me, and I would never do anything to jeopordize that.

Lucien
Precisely my point. Considering that you will be selling kits and even magnets seperately I would think that it would be easy enough for someone to verify your claims on their own so it would make little sense to start such big business venture based on a lie that would surely be discovered if in fact it were a lie.

PEM (Peter Maul I assume?),

Rather than accuse someone of making fraudulent claims and slandering them in the process I think my above suggestion (buy some magnets, test them yourself and post your results) would be a more appropriate way to proceed.

Adam
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Old Mar 27, 2007, 05:26 PM
pem
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Frankfurt Intl, Germany
Joined Feb 2004
291 Posts
Good Idea - Lucien, could you sell ? At the shop I havn't found.

Peter Maul

PS: Adam Latrans: The only participant in this discussion who used the word "lie"
and "fraudolent" was you. I use the phrase "purely marketing" for selling arguments
if no published proof could be found.
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Old Mar 27, 2007, 05:48 PM
Flying motor mount master
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San Jose, California, United States
Joined Oct 2004
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lucien-

No worries, if I wrote that much in a post I'm sure I'd have plenty mistakes.

Great read. Maybe you should make it a stickey!!!!

B
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Old Mar 28, 2007, 06:52 PM
"You know how I Roll"
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United States, CA, Redding
Joined Jan 2007
524 Posts
Well I recieved my New Scorpion 25 AMP ESC today. The first one I ordered was the old model and it cut out on me in flight do to the BEC not being designed to run 4 servos. After hearing about this Scorpion refunded my money for the ESC and provided me (free of charge) there new ESC to test out in My Airfoilz Yak. I just got back from flying and have to say it worked flawlessly. I put it through five 8 minute flights in a row and had no problems at all. I am using the Scorpion 2215-18 motor and absolutely love it. If anyone is on the fence about trying Scorpion motors or Esc's just pull the trigger you will not be disappointed. You get great quality, great customer service, at a great price. I liked my motor so much I ordered another one.

Thanks Lucien and Georges;

Chris
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Old Mar 29, 2007, 05:27 PM
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Bergen, NJ
Joined Jul 2006
306 Posts
Your motor's look great, looks like one will be in my fleet in the future. Do you have any plans to make a motor in the sub oz range?
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Old Mar 30, 2007, 02:22 AM
Dance the skies...
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United States, MA, Walpole
Joined Dec 2003
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There's been a lot of posts on the high temperature "survivability" of these motors, but since I don't run my motors to boil water, what I'd really like to see are some charts showing the amp draw at various voltages with various commonly used props, and the corresponding static thrust produced, rpm, and pitch speed.... ala Dr. Kiwi chart style. Then I'll have something to compare with other similar sized motors and can draw some more realistic conclusions.

How about it?
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Old Mar 30, 2007, 05:58 AM
WAA-08 THANK FRANK!
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Las Cruces, New Mexico, United States
Joined Jun 2002
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Check out the website - charts beyond charts are posted there.
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Old Mar 30, 2007, 09:48 AM
Innov8tive's Avatar
Joined Jan 2007
1,732 Posts
Tom,

We already did that several months ago. If you go to our website you can check out actual prop test for every single one of our 22mm motors. These can be found in the Scorpion 22mm Motor Section of our website. Each motor has a link to the prop test data for that specific motor. When you click on the link, you will be directed to a prop chart page that is ready to print out if you would like.

The production versions of the 30mm motors just came in 2 days ago, and we will be conduction extensive prop testing on those as well, and will publish the data as it becomes available. We will begin posting these motors to the site and webstore over the next couple days.

If you are in the Los Angeles area this weekend, please stop by the RCX show and and check out the motors yourself.

Lucien
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Old Mar 30, 2007, 11:23 AM
Registered User
Florissant, MO
Joined Mar 2003
357 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimNM
Check out the website - charts beyond charts are posted there.
This is great stuff and I congratulate Lucien on a creating data that is rare on motor sales sites!!
I would like to point out that inexperienced people should be wary of comparing data just based on motor size, prop size, etc. You must also be aware of the winding connections (WYE or DELTA) and the effects thereof on charted data. I believe all of the scorpion motors, at present, are DELTA connections and data should be treated accordingly.
BobK
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Old Mar 30, 2007, 01:39 PM
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Joined Jan 2007
1,732 Posts
Skinner46,

You are correct. All of the current production 22mm and 30mm Scorpion motors are Delta terminated and are LRK wound with 14 magnets and a 12 pole stator.

The new Hi-Kv 22mm series that will be coming out shortly are also Delta terminated, but they will be a 6 magnet design with a 9 pole stator. These new motors are designed for helicopter and ducted fan applications.

Lucien
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