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Old Feb 09, 2008, 08:21 PM
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LandCruiser's Avatar
Little Rock, AR
Joined Jul 2005
263 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smiky
LandCruiser,

Take a look at post #1090 that may answer some of your questions.

Mike
Informative post, but this is my 3rd Scorpion motor and the only one that has this problem.
I'm not sure if my problem is with my ESC, as my E-flite 40 amp will start it with no screeching at all. The Phoenix 45 however will screech and the motor will make "knocking" noises and racket I have never heard from any of my other electrics if I try to slowly advance the thottle.
I also get the "over current" flash on my CC45 after a slow throttle advance?
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Old Feb 09, 2008, 08:39 PM
I do it cause it's FUN!
Oak Ridge
Joined Jun 2007
198 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by LandCruiser
Informative post, but this is my 3rd Scorpion motor and the only one that has this problem.
I'm not sure if my problem is with my ESC, as my E-flite 40 amp will start it with no screeching at all. The Phoenix 45 however will screech and the motor will make "knocking" noises and racket I have never heard from any of my other electrics if I try to slowly advance the thottle.
I also get the "over current" flash on my CC45 after a slow throttle advance?
I still think that post carries the answer, or a least the reason. Can you alter the 'throttle curve' on the CC ESC's?

Mike
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Old Feb 09, 2008, 09:08 PM
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LandCruiser's Avatar
Little Rock, AR
Joined Jul 2005
263 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smiky
I still think that post carries the answer, or a least the reason. Can you alter the 'throttle curve' on the CC ESC's?

Mike
Dropping back from the current firmware ver 1.56 to ver 1.23 seems to have fixed the problem for now.

I will play around some more with the 1.56 ver and see if I can get it to work later.
The 1.23 will have to do for the maiden.
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Old Feb 09, 2008, 09:33 PM
I do it cause it's FUN!
Oak Ridge
Joined Jun 2007
198 Posts
Good, well a least you've got it working . I'd send Castle an email and see what they say.

Mike
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Old Feb 10, 2008, 11:35 AM
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Slovakia
Joined Oct 2007
99 Posts
Hi,
I was thinking of buying Scorpion motor+ESC for Multiplex Acromaster (about 1100 g = 39 oz). I believe 3014-16 (600W) + 55 Amp ESC is perfect, but if I check Scorpion motor comparison chart, it says that this motor is comparable to Dualsky 3536CA-6, which is only 350W. So 600W = 350W
Also other comparable motors same story, for example Scorpion 302012 (800W) = Dualsky 3548-4 (650W) ...
I don't understand, it's like saying that 500 HP Ferrari=250 HP Ford

This is the chart :
http://www.innov8tivedesigns.com/Sco...ison%20Web.htm
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Old Feb 10, 2008, 11:58 AM
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Canada's East Coast, "An Ocean Playground"
Joined Apr 2002
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..this is what I find,

A number of the Scorpion motor power levels appear to be derived by running a 4S pack ...approx 15 volts...but if you take the maximum continuous current allowed and multiply by 11.5 volt (3S) the power level is similar or slightly above the competition.

Bill
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Old Feb 10, 2008, 12:18 PM
I do it cause it's FUN!
Oak Ridge
Joined Jun 2007
198 Posts
Try looking at it this way. The comparison charts show the Scorpion equivalent based on Stator Diameter, Magnet Length and Winds (Kv) and to a lesser degree Weight. If you have 2 Motors of approximately the same quality that have the same dimensions and winds then the are going to have approximately the same power output regardless of what Make they are.

The thing that separates the Scorpion Brand is the use of 'High' temperature components that allows the user to push them harder that the 'Other Brand' equivalent Motors.

If you compare the Max Amps of the Scorpion Motor to it's other brand equivalent you will find that the Scorpion will usually have a higher Max Amp rating and thus is more 'powerful'.

That how I understand it anyway .

Mike
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Old Feb 10, 2008, 01:02 PM
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Slovakia
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OK,
I hope you are right. So basically for same size and weight Scorpion motors have more power than others. They should write some comments about this to the chart, because now it looks like - if you want similar flight performance with same plane, you need 350W Dualsky or 600W Scorpion.
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Old Feb 10, 2008, 01:37 PM
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Alabaster AL
Joined Aug 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by retiredVTT
..this is what I find,

A number of the Scorpion motor power levels appear to be derived by running a 4S pack ...approx 15 volts...but if you take the maximum continuous current allowed and multiply by 11.5 volt (3S) the power level is similar or slightly above the competition.

Bill
Lucian at one time told me that the max wattage was based on 4S, so I would believe this and you to be correct. I also think I read that Lucian, when time permitted, was going to revise all the prop charts.

One should also take advantage of ScorpionCalc to get a better understanding of prop and voltage combos.

RCNXS
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Old Feb 10, 2008, 08:45 PM
Das Universus Elektrikus
Albig's Avatar
NM, USA
Joined Mar 2002
3,309 Posts
Lucien,

I know you don't like to announce release dates until your sure, but any idea on when the 4035xx series is expected?

Al
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Old Feb 10, 2008, 08:50 PM
Southern Pride
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Haralson County GA. USA
Joined Oct 2004
34,541 Posts
Quote:
told me that the max wattage was based on 4S,
According to prop data charts that would be 5S and 17.5 volts under load.

The limiting factor for motors is amps. and since watts is amps. times volts the more volts you have the more watts you can develop without smoking the motor.
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Old Feb 10, 2008, 11:21 PM
I do it cause it's FUN!
Oak Ridge
Joined Jun 2007
198 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by everydayflyer
According to prop data charts that would be 5S and 17.5 volts under load.

The limiting factor for motors is amps. and since watts is amps. times volts the more volts you have the more watts you can develop without smoking the motor.
Truth be told the limiting factor for motors is how much heat they can dissipate.

Mike
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Old Feb 11, 2008, 01:12 PM
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Canada's East Coast, "An Ocean Playground"
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It's an interesting topic..."the limiting f-a-c-t-o-r for motors" ...we all know that excessive heat destroys windings, and that it is the friction of the electrons moving through the wire, that creates the heat build up, and if you cannot dissipate the heat buildup, winding can burn out AND/OR magnets can demagnetize....end of lesson ....

..but what about voltage....what if we keep increasing the voltage while at the same time decreasing the current flow to keep the amps from causing a problem (multi S pack with small prop)...what can be expected?
The power level (watts in) will not be too much different will it, however it has a large voltage content and voltage has an effect on RPM does it not....(KV = RPM per volt) so do we reach a point where the motor destroys itself by OVER-REVING and throwing a magnet or two..???

Bill
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Old Feb 11, 2008, 01:15 PM
X-Era Motors
DavidB.'s Avatar
Newport, NC
Joined Jan 2002
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Inductance effects and iron losses limit maximum motor RPM. So at high rpm's it is best to reduce inductance and reduce iron losses. Low pole counts also help so that the controller can keep up.
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Old Feb 11, 2008, 01:31 PM
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landru's Avatar
Vancouver, Canada
Joined Mar 2003
2,110 Posts
David, I think you make a good point about the significance of iron losses and inductance.

From what I've seen in testing both outrunners and inrunners, the iron losses for outrunners tend to increase much more rapidly with voltage (speed) than for inrunners—even slotted ones.

One result is that increased voltage does not tend increase motor peak efficiency for an outrunner as dramatically as it does for an inrunner. In fact the plot of peak efficiency vs. voltage can be quite flat over a significant range.

Another possible result is that the peak efficiency for an outrunner might be configured to occur at a higher power input than for an 'equivalent' inrunner. From that claim we might ask, which is more powerful: the inrunner with a higher peak efficiency running well past that peak, or the outrunner with the lower peak efficiency running closer to its peak?

I think a few well-known motor-builders are putting that to the test in another thread.
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