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Old Mar 22, 2007, 11:04 PM
Innov8tive's Avatar
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FAQ
Scorpion Motors: Questions and Answers....

Hello Everyone!

I have been asked by a few modelers here on RC groups to start a discussion thread for the purpose of answering people's questions about Scorpion Brushless Motors and Speed Controllers, so here it is. In this thread I will do my best to give you all the information you need and answer any questions you may have about the Scorpion products, and recommendations for their use.

I will check this thread a couple times per day, and answer each question specifically, to the best of my ability. I will also try my best to keep the discussion on track, and not let it drift off to other topics.

So that being said, the floor is open to you, ask away!


Lucien Miller

CVO Innov8tive Designs


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Old Mar 22, 2007, 11:30 PM
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USA, TX, Live Oak
Joined Oct 2002
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I recently ordered a Scorpion 35 amp esc and I have a couple of questions.

I'm going to be using it with a justgofly 500T outrunner motor and wonder what to set for 2 parameters:

1. PWM control frequency - should I use Auto or something else?

2. Timing Advance - again Auto or something else?

I know I could just experiment, but the esc is going to be hard to get to inside the plane. It would be nice to get it right from the onset. All the other parameters are pretty straight forward. BTW, I like the fact that you can set the LVC to 3.2. And the programming device included with the esc is a big plus.

I had so much trouble trying to get CC esc software to work on my computer that I really appreciate the simplicity of the programming card. I can't wait to get the new esc and use it. It looks like a quality product.
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Old Mar 23, 2007, 12:03 AM
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ptglass,

Welcome as the first member to the new Scorpion discussion forum! Just to let you know, your ESC shipped out today, so you should have it by Saturday.

On my testing with the 35 Amp ESC, I found it best to leave the PWM setting set on auto detect. It seemed to do a very good job of finding the proper frequency.

For the timing advance, Auto Detect usually selects a conservative setting that insures easy start-ups and good throttle response. I have found that, in most outrunners, manually setting the timing to 15 degrees gives about 5% more power output, while still maintaining good start-up reliability. About 1/2 of the outrunner motors I tested would hiccup occasionally when the timing was set to 25 degrees, so I would not recommend that.

One thing that you probably should do is to set the cell count to the number of cells in your battery pack to make sure that your LVC works properly. For the 500T motor, I would assume that it would be 3 cells.

Good luck with your installation, and enjoy your flights!

Lucien
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Old Mar 23, 2007, 12:17 AM
Michael Yosten
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Greenville, Tx
Joined May 2006
592 Posts
Lucien can you give the best programming options for the motors? I had to put a lot of stuff on auto. As what ptglass did.
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Old Mar 23, 2007, 12:31 AM
Michael Yosten
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Greenville, Tx
Joined May 2006
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BTW I really like your motors I look forward to putting some more time on them!
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Old Mar 23, 2007, 12:52 AM
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Indiana
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When will you have planetary geared inrunners in the lineup?
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Old Mar 23, 2007, 01:15 AM
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Mikeygp,

Most of my testing has been on the motor thrust stand that I built since I had a LOT of data to compile over the past few weeks! While the Scorpion ESC's will work just fine right out of the box on the Default settings, they can be fine tuned for a little better performance.

Here is the set-up that I like to use. This is my personal preference, and if something happens along the way to change this, I will let you know.

Referring to the Programming Guide tht comes with the ESC, I will go through the programming options one-by-one and give you my settings.

SW1 - Needs to be switched on to get in the User Select mode.

SW2 - I set Battery type to Li-Po.

SW3-SW6 - Cell Count: I set to my actual cell count, which in most cases will be 3.

SW7-SW8 - Li-Po cut-off: I set mine to 3.0 volts, because I never run my battery packs much past 3/4 capacity, and I do not want the LVC to kick in at a bad time. If you are the kind of person that looses track of time and flys to LVC all the time, then set it to the level you are comfortable with. I would use 3.1 or 3.2 depending on how hard you push your batteries. 3.1 if you are really pushing them hard, and 3.2 if you go easy on them.

SW9 - Cut-off Type: Personally, I do not like Hard Cut-off I prefer the Soft Cut-off so I get a little warning.

SW10 - Current Protection: It can't hurt to leave this on, especialy if you are pushing the ESC above 75% of its current rating. If it kicks in, the prop will stop and the motor will beep a few times. If you return the throttle to idle for a couple seconds, and then open the throttle back up, it will reset the Current Protection and let the prop spin back up. If you are hitting the Current Overload, then you are using too big a prop.

SW11-SW12 Brake Type: I like using no brake on the test stand, and Medium brake when flying. If you are flying a folder prop, then use hard brake.

SW13-SW14 Motor Acceleration: This is in there for people that use really big props or gearboxes on their motors. The delay value is how long it takes for the ESC to ramp up from 0% throttle to 100% throttle. For gearbox motors you will want to use the 0.60 or 1.00 second settings. If you run a small prop direct drive, use the 0.15 second option, and if you use a larger prop direct drive, select the 0.3 second option. Every once in a while you will get a motor that screeches or stutters on start-up. lengthing the acceleration time will get rid of this in most cases.

SW15-SW16 - PWM Frequency: I normally leave this set to Auto Detect, and it works well for me. If you want to experiment with this you can, but for most small outrunners, it does not make a lot of difference.

SW17-SW19 - Timing Advance: You can leave this in Auto mode, but it will cost you a little bit of power in exchange for very good reliability. For most of the Scorpion motors I have tested, 15 degrees seems to give the best performance.

SW20 Reversing: This is good if you have a motor installation that is tough to get to, and you realize too late that you have the motor hooked up backwards. It is best to swap the motor leads if you can, but if not, use this setting to correct the rotation direction.


One other thing that should be mentioned, and that I forgot to put into the ESC instructions, it the throttle position calibration. When you fire the controller up for the first time, making sure that there is not a prop installed, you should calibrate the throttle position.

To do this, turn on your transmitter and set the throttle to full open position. Then plug in your battery to turn on the speed controller. After about 5 seconds you will the motor make a "beep-beep" sound. After you get the beeps, return the throttle to the closed position. Two seconds after you bring the throttle down, the ESC will give the "beep-beep" again, followed a second later by a "dee-doo" sound. After that, your throttle is calibrated, and it will remember the settings from then on.

That is about it as far as I remember. If you have any other questions, let me know!

Lucien
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Old Mar 23, 2007, 01:17 AM
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icrashrc,

Right now there are no future plans for producing inrunner motors. That may change if there is a lot of demand, but Scorpion is focusing on the Outrunner style motors for now.

Lucien
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Old Mar 23, 2007, 01:40 AM
Vic and Quinn Walton
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Santa Barbara CA
Joined Jan 2006
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Any idea when the larger motors will be available? Also will you have a booth set up at RCX?
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Old Mar 23, 2007, 01:43 AM
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Pleasant Grove, UT
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Can the programing board be bought by itself? Will it work with the beta versions of the 35amp ESC?
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Old Mar 23, 2007, 02:31 AM
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rc2xs,

Yes, we will be exhibiting at RCX next weekend on March 31st and April 1st. As far as the larger motors go, I have GREAT news! I just got off the phone with the owner of Scorpion a few minutes ago, and the first short production run of the 30mm motors will be completed in 2 days. I will be getting 120 motors, 10 of each size, shipped to me on Monday, so they will get here by the 29th, just in time for the RCX show. If you have been waiting to get one of these awesome motors, be sure to stop by our booth, because I have a feeling that they are going to sell very quickly! For a complete list of all the sizes that are available, go to our website and look at the Scorpion 30mm Motor Specs.

We will also be getting in the larger versions of the Scorpion ESC's as well, so we will have all 9 models, from the micro 11 Amp model up to the massive 110 Amp model, available at RCX. For a look at all the ESC Specs, go to the Scorpion Commander ESC Website.



jfinch,

Yes, the ESC programmer for the production Speed Controllers will work with the Beta version of the 35 Amp ESC. I have a few extra ones here in my office that I have left over from my booth display samples. Send me a PM with your address, and I will send you one at no charge. How's that for customer service!

Take care guys!

Lucien
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Old Mar 23, 2007, 05:41 AM
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Lucien, regarding when you say

"SW20 Reversing: This is good if you have a motor installation that is tough to get to, and you realize too late that you have the motor hooked up backwards. It is best to swap the motor leads if you can, but if not, use this setting to correct the rotation direction."

Why is is best to swop the motor leads if you can?

Do you mean that having the motor running in the default direction is better for the ESC or motor in some way, more power or it's more efficient running a certain direction etc, or simply that swopping leads is quicker/easier than reprogramming?
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Old Mar 23, 2007, 11:20 AM
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Joined Jan 2007
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ukpaul,

This was more of a general statement than pretaining to the Scorpion ESC's in particular. Brushless motors have no set timing like brushed motors do, so they run equally well in both directions, and the ESC does not care if it fires off the phases in "ABC" order or "CBA" order.

The reason that I made that comment is because on rare occasions, I have seen Brushless Speed Controllers revert back to their Default settings due to a glitch in the power-up of the controller. This can sometimes occur when you are plugging in the battery, and the connection does not mate up right away, and you actually turn the controller on and off about 10 times in under a second while you are fidgeting with the power plug.

I have never seen it happen on a Scorpion ESC, but I have on a couple cheaper Chinese No-Name import products. The real problem is that it is a safety issue. If the last 100 times you held your plane before takeoff, it allways pulls forward when you open the throttle, you are not expecting it to push back. If the ESC were to reverse directions, and you were not expecting it, it could push the prop back into your hand and cut your finger pretty bad. Tat is the main reason why I always set up my motors to turn the proper direction by swapping the motor leads instead of using the reversing option.

The chances of having an ESC default on you are probably 1 in a million or less, so it is really not a big issue. However, I like to play guitar sometimes, when I am not flying, so I would like to keep all my fingers intact!

If you have an installation where the motor leads are buried inside the plane and inaccessable, like they are on a couple of my ParkJets, and you need to reverse the motor direction, then by all means, use the reversing feature, that is what it is there for.

Lucien
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Old Mar 23, 2007, 01:27 PM
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Oh I see, fairynuff. My 3 braincells understand now

I always thought ESC's were happy to drive motors either way, so I was just a bit puzzled when you said it's best to swop the connections about. Never thought of it from a safety point of view.

Didn't want to be missing out on a bit of performance or run time running it 'backwards' if you knew something about ESC's I didn't, which I'm sure you do anyway

Still like the Scorpion motor you sent me, more pull than the equivalent Hacker it replaced. Picked up the recommended 10x5E for it today, so will give that a go on it tomorrow...

Cheers,
Paul.
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Old Mar 23, 2007, 01:52 PM
Former Futaba employee
Joined Aug 2006
1,178 Posts
When can we see the 30mm available? a combo with the 2215-22 and the 25 amp esc for around $70-$75 would be fun to see.

congrats on the new forum
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