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Old Oct 11, 2002, 02:22 PM
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use Polyurethane glue Not Epoxy

Someone mentioned using epoxy, use Polyurethane glue, Elmer's makes some. It foams up ( particularly with moisture added ) filling rather large gaps ( like a round spar in a rectangular hole )so is much lighter than epoxy, is quite tough ( non-brittle ), is strong ( much stronger than the foam you will be using it with ), and is 100% solids - meaning is doesn't have solvents that will dissolve foams.

Once you use it, you will be wanting to use it for all situations.

Really, if you're not familiar with it, go get some. Drip a little water on it to make it cure faster and expand more.
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Old Oct 11, 2002, 04:40 PM
Fly Brushless!
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Las Vegas
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Just bought 2 bottles of the Elmers Probond PolyU. I personally do not like 3M-S77 and have a huge can right here. It doesn't work so hot when gluing large 2" lengths of foam together. I'm going to give the ProBond my first try either later tonight or tomorrow. I'm glad to hear that it's so light, that's great!
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Old Oct 13, 2002, 05:39 PM
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I was looking at the Grizzly Industrial catalog today and saw a spray adhesive that looked like 3M-77. It is made by Loctite and is designed for foam, carpet, fabrics, plastic and rubber. Has anyone tried this?

Glen
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Old Oct 13, 2002, 05:49 PM
Fly Brushless!
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Ok, I used ProBond Poly-U by Elmers. Man this stuff is strong and very light! I'm very happy with it. I glued 2 long planks of 2" blue foam together, put weights on it and let it sit for about 2 hours. Then I started cutting it and it was no problem. Had to go a little slower cutting than when using 3M spray, but this just has a much tighter bond.

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Old Oct 13, 2002, 09:26 PM
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Yea, neat stuff. Once I figured out that it needs to covered with tape, it is great for all sorts of things. Here is a picture of a TE that I just glued at CF rod onto and taped with ProBond. It might be hard to see in the pictures but the arrows point to some of the foam and expansion points. This is a great way to stiffen up a TE on thin wings by the way. The CF rod with the ProBond pushing into the foam really makes a difference. If you try this, don't forget the tape!

Matt
www.yourzagi.com
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Last edited by mtayl; Oct 13, 2002 at 09:29 PM.
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Old Oct 14, 2002, 01:23 PM
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If you need to fill in some gaps in foam, try mixing some baking soda with the Probond. It dosn't weigh much more and sets up rock hard. Mist the surface with water, put in the Probond mix, mist with water again. I have used it to fill large gashes in my Zagi and Wedgie and it works very well.

Glen
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Old Oct 14, 2002, 03:55 PM
6 planes 2 jets 2 helis
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Joined Sep 2002
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At Wal-mart they had a can of Elmers Extra Strength Spray Adhesive.
Order #E-456 at Elmers.com

the ing contains inorder isohexane, acetone, propane.
and at the bottom reads
no fluorocarbons,methylenechloride,haxane,methoxyor ethoxyethanol or their aceatates.

( wow that took 5 min to type)

I don't know if its good or noAnybody try this yet?
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Old Oct 14, 2002, 04:08 PM
Mega Motor Man!!
Richmond, Va
Joined Oct 2002
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Acetone is the problem.. So no go on EPS foam....
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Old Oct 14, 2002, 04:35 PM
6 planes 2 jets 2 helis
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trying to find the "old" stuff sounds too hard and long drives spending $$ on gas also.

Sounds pretty reasonable to use the probond.

How do you apply it? brush, finger or stick? How thin?
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Old Oct 14, 2002, 06:48 PM
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It has the consistency of your normal Elmers white glue, looks kind of golden and comes in a squeeze bottle. The thing that is tricky about ProBond is that 1) it needs water and 2) water makes it foam up.

So what I do is:
  • wet a Q-tip
  • run that around where you are planning on glueing the stuff (you want it barely moist, not soaking)
  • run a small bead of ProBond
  • tape over it with some strapping tape.
  • wait 12 hours.
If you lightly moisten the foam then it tends to push into the foam about 0.25" inches or so and sometimes much further. Great behavior for putting spars in, etc. as long as you control the foaming action on the top with tape. Lots of people use the misting squirt bottles to kind of kick in action. I found that a Q-tip works nicely and provides enough moisture.

It will take roughly 12 hours to fully dry. After I apply it and tape it up, I'll check it every hour and wipe of any excess foam that has pushed itself out.

Matt
www.yourzagi.com
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Old Oct 14, 2002, 07:08 PM
6 planes 2 jets 2 helis
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United States, MA, Charlton
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great site you have and thanx for the tip.


I'll be needing many more in the future just give the UPS the week to bring it to me
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Old Oct 14, 2002, 08:37 PM
Mega Motor Man!!
Richmond, Va
Joined Oct 2002
403 Posts
The zagi manual says to spray a light coat of S-77 before taping.. What do you guys use if you don't use Super 77?

And Pacoson71, this can be found in most ALL craft stores.. Once I found it, I see it all over the place...
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Old Oct 14, 2002, 08:44 PM
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I have that elemers spray and i did see that other s77 in a small can but not sure if it was the low voc stuff.
What if I spraed the stuff from a distance Some people say it works or just scrap the can?
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Old Oct 14, 2002, 09:01 PM
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Quote:
The zagi manual says to spray a light coat of S-77 before taping.. What do you guys use if you don't use Super 77?
You can still use it (see http://www.yourzagi.com/s77.htm) but as other people have mentioned you need to spray into a cup or something to allow the acetone to off gas.

I have covered wings with zero S77 when I was too lazy to drive to the hardware store Although film or tape won't stick as well without it, it will stick to the foam if you lightly sand (at least 220 grit) and then clean it with some Windex or other window cleaner with ammonia in it. Make sure you lightly sand all of the strapping tape to get rid of the anti-stick coating on the tape. I put some more covering tips up at http://www.yourzagi.com/covering.htm

As far as a replacement for S77 goes, I have yet to find one but then again I have not really tried that hard. I suppose one of these days my supply of S77 will run out and then I'll be forced to experiment! Seriously though, my thought on not having any is to simply sand it, clean it, then either use the supplied tape or if you are looking for a film covering to use Ultracote. It works fine without it, just sand and clean it well.

Quote:
What if I sprayed the stuff from a distance? Some people say it works or just scrap the can?
If I had some I would first try it out on the wing bed that came with the wing and see what happens to the foam but if it has acetone in it then it will eat the EPS portion of the wing. Sounds like it's about time for me to experiment a bit and update the http://www.yourzagi.com/build.htm#adhesives page. Glen-LV mentioned that loctite stuff that sounds interesting as well.

Matt
www.yourzagi.com
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Old Oct 14, 2002, 09:18 PM
Mega Motor Man!!
Richmond, Va
Joined Oct 2002
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Although the spraying in a cup and letting the acetone evaporate worked for joining the two halves.. It's not going to work well for placing tape on the wings.. Once the acetone had evaporated, it was all I could do to get a thin coat and not glob it on.. Matt you have a wonderful site and I think I've read every word on it.. I hightly reccommend it to everyone with a Zagi, or a flying wing for that matter.. But being that I've found the good S77 in a new can, seems to me it may be around a little while longer..
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