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Old Oct 10, 2002, 06:01 AM
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CAD drawing of swash plate or rotor head for ECO8

Does anybody had a CAD drawing of a swash plate or a rotor head for an ECO8?

I'd like to get a price estimate from a mill and lathe shop to have them created in aluminum.

Thanks,

Bert
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Old Oct 10, 2002, 10:38 AM
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Richmond, VA
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Go to this site. Some of the best Eco8 prices on the net...and it'll be a lot cheaper that having them custom milled.

http://www.fxaeromodels.com/newpage1.htm

Mike
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Old Oct 10, 2002, 11:07 AM
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I don't think so.
At $139 for a rotor head and $75 for a alu swash plate??
I found a shop where I only pay 35 Euro per hour for having pieces made. I'm pretty sure I can go a lot lower.

Don't forget transport costs and import taxes!

Bert
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Old Oct 10, 2002, 12:12 PM
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You aparently have no idea of the work involved to make these... The prices stated above are CHEAP for those parts... There is a bunch of set-up involved and that is where to $$ come in...

Having a one off set for your self made will be quite expensive...

Even at 35e/hr. I'll bet it'll cost 350e to get it done minimum...

Just having the cad work done is worth money, it's a lot of time... These things don't happen instantly as some people aparently believe... Time is money...

bigTim
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Old Oct 10, 2002, 12:54 PM
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I can do the CAD work myself. I posted my request for the CAD files to save me some work/time. Why do things again if someone else has done then already and is willing to share!
If I had the machinery I could do the milling myself too.
First I will get an estimate for creating the pieces. If it's not worth it, I can still get the pieces from the model shop.
I'm a DIY man wherever I can. Not only because it saves me money, but because I LOVE building.

If I can get the pieces made cheaper than the stock prices from Ikarus or Gensmantel rest asured that you'll find out through this or the Ikarus forum!

Bert
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Old Oct 10, 2002, 03:25 PM
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ROTFL.

The price you have been quoted is only for machine time, it also indicates that they are reasonably cheap and will not have the VERY expensive machinery required to produce such an precision item!

Your post indicates to me that your quite young and inexperienced in this field (Seeing $75 as expensive for such an item is a give away) and your enthusiasm is good but in this instance heed the sound advice given twguns and Mike.

Its is very unlikely that you would personally ever own the machinery to produce such an item as its costs an awful amount of money, these are not hand produced items.

A detailed CAD drawing suitable for conversion to g-code or the likes would take many, many hours to produce by an experienced draftsman and therefore cost a considerable amount of money.

Don't forget all the other sundries required as well, bearing, center ball, balls, screws, AR Pin, or are you having these custom produced also?

The Ikarus price for such an item is extremely good value and although I have experience in this field and my costs would be much less than yours, I wouldn't even think about competing with the Ikarus product.

As your in the EU you should be able to get the Ikarus products slightly cheaper as they are imported in to the states.

If you do decide to press on then I'd be really interested to obtain your CAD drawing, free of charge of course!
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Old Oct 10, 2002, 03:43 PM
The Flying Object
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Calgary, AB, Canada
Joined Jan 2002
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Hi,

I totally agree with you, Twguns and Anks. Time is $$$, machine is printer needs some "inks" and "papers" as well.

I see your point very clear. To me, CAD is the most important KEY to make product, machine is a second. Having machine, but no CAD, nothing it can do.
I personally spent total 630 hours on design Alum Swashplate for Hornet. It's worth for the time I spent, and I personally don't want to ask for a free CAD file, as I knew there is lot of works involed, not seat there to drawn but you have to think and think...

Here is an example:




On some products, even having CAD file not mean you can make it right out of the machine and ensure it will work. Only the designers knew what they are doing on the Plan such as tolerance + or -, precision, how to assembly, safety concerns.....

Run machine for one piece is totally different from Run Production. Therefore, the cost of one piece is different from production.

Bert wrote:
"I don't think so.
At $139 for a rotor head and $75 for a alu swash plate??
I found a shop where I only pay 35 Euro per hour for having pieces made. I'm pretty sure I can go a lot lower.

Don't forget transport costs and import taxes!


I personally rather buy it than make it. Too much works, look so simple but trust me it's not at all.

I can not compare the rate hours between China and US, or its quality and performance (depends on products). You get what you pay!

Just my thoughts....

It's nice to try.
Good luck,

Andy Nguyen,
MicroHeli.com
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Old Oct 10, 2002, 04:01 PM
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Andy, are your drawings done with "AC Inventor"??? Those are very nice... Your pieces are equally as nice and if the Hornet I have in mind materializes this winter I hope to get a set of our parts for it...

bigTim
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Old Oct 10, 2002, 04:37 PM
The Flying Object
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Calgary, AB, Canada
Joined Jan 2002
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Twguns,

Oh, these drawings are just a old prototype sample, the actual product such as Anti-Rotation Support is another improvement base on the dimension of drawing. I used AutoCad to create them from what I learned. There are many other powerful Cad, but this AutoCad is good enough to do the job we want to do

Sorry, if I caused the confusing.

Here is the actual product samples for the 2 drawings above:




PS: These images are for references relate to topic, they are not intended for advertising.

Andy Nguyen,
MicroHeli.com
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Old Oct 11, 2002, 03:15 AM
jk
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i have to agree. making precision parts can be more difficult that it appears. when you have a finished product in your hand, it appears to be alot easier than actually creating it.
this Hornet CP hub took me a long time to get it perfect:

machine finish:



and polished:



regards,

johnk
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Old Oct 11, 2002, 04:57 AM
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I am 36 and do have a budget that can cope with 200 euro.
That is not the point really.
I have done some CAD drawing in Autocad and Rhino. I have used a lathe and a mill in my college studies as an industrial engineer. What's the problem??

I want to know how things work and do as much as possible myself. I will press on and draw a 120 swash plate in AutoCad 2000, no matter how many hours it takes. I'm pretty sure I can minimize the design and keep the production cost as low as possible. Thanks for the previews, they're a great start!

If I do succeed and can get a production at a reasonable cost (at or below Ikarus' price) I'll be the first one to share it with the world, drawing and all!
As an IT person I'm very much involved in Open Source Software and I love the phylosophy behind the "sharing" bit. When enough people get involved the end result is SUPER. A French group (can't find their site anymore) have worked together and developed a computer controlled foam cutting machine. Everything was put online.

Just my $0.02 worth of motivation.

Bert
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Old Oct 11, 2002, 05:22 AM
Grand Poobah of Nothing
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Once Australia, now Finland
Joined Feb 2001
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They're just trying to say that its hard work, and will probably be cheaper to order one. At 35e per hour it will only take 6 hours of their time before it is more expensive than buying it - I'll bet it would take longer than that.


Still, its worth looking into it! If you can simplify the design enough you might be able to get something worthwhile.

Now, if you had all the equipment yourself it could be another matter! Then you'd be doing it for fun. I think you'd still be discouraged but personally I'd encourage you, I know how rewarding it is to make something really difficult work.

Good luck!
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Old Oct 11, 2002, 06:10 AM
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You think that creating a rotor head would take longer than 6 hours on CNC machines once the drawing is finished? Hmmm, I must be missing something.

I will do the drawing myself, no matter how long it takes, so I will not take that into account. And yes, when I succeed, I will share it, even if it takes me 630 hours to create! This way everybody with access to the right machinery will be able to have them made.

I want to get exact figures, not estimates. I guess, with the people on this forum, the only way to get those is to actually do it and get an exact estimate!

Bert
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Old Oct 11, 2002, 07:36 AM
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NM, USA
Joined Mar 2002
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Parts production question.

Can any of you CAD/CAM Gurus out there tell me if the technology exists to scan a prototype and relate this into a finished product.

I know that this is possible with photo activated polymers. And also if not already available, in the near future with metallic alloys, created from solutions of metallic salts. At the very least this will speed up the prototyping aspect of design/production.

Albig
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Old Oct 11, 2002, 07:48 AM
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Joined Jun 2001
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From a manufacturing point of view, yes there is, do a search on the net for 3D scanner. You can scan a component and it will drop a representation into a CAD package.

A good one is expensive, but you don't actually need it. Its all very flashy but if you know what your doing it won't save much time as a projector is sufficent for someone with the knowledge and skills.

A point to note here, if you are going to re-manufacture/reverse engineer a product, its normal practise to actually buy the product first and work from that! Even then its trial and error and you will need to tweak your design from the CAD drawing.

The stock item is obviously totally different due to the manufacturing method used for the different materials.
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